Episode 4: Deanna Taylor-Heacock

of Good Bottle Refill Shop

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

refill, people, buying, shop, thought, bottle, store, business, started, opening, new year's resolution, recycling, deanna, waste, dish soap, recycled, feel, target, brand, big

SPEAKERS

Scott Robson, Deanna Taylor-Heacock, Intro, Kate Jaeger-Thomas, Kate and Scott

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  00:00

Scott, I'm really excited to introduce Deanna to you today.

Scott Robson  00:03

I'm so excited to meet Deanna. She's like a star.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  00:06

She's a total star. She's a real powerhouse. She has completely changed everything in our town. So Deanna Taylor Haycock opened the first refill shop in New Jersey, and 2019, which is mind blowing in and of itself that there wasn't one before.

Scott Robson  00:22

First one. It's insane. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  00:23

Well, we'll get into that. I think today, yes, but after a New Year's resolution, is what you know, led her down this path to low waist living. So she combined her career in fashion and her quest to reduce single use plastic, and Good Bottle Refill Shop has completely changed the way New Jersey shops for household goods, including me, I am 100%, a customer of hers. 

Scott Robson  00:48

You're so lucky. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  00:49

I know. It's so great. Their motto is stop buying your trash.

Scott Robson  00:53

Oh my god. Can this be the model for my life?

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  00:58

Exactly. Which was her epiphany while she's staring at her cart in Target one day. So Good Bottle has two locations now in Maplewood and Montclair, New Jersey. You bring your own bottle, so you can refill and use it over and over again, they also deliver locally, which makes it incredibly convenient. It's just like the milkman, so you can easily reduce your waste and support what she refers to as a circular economy. And it's mind blowing. It's so good.

Scott Robson  01:28

It's genius. I'm so excited to have her on today.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  01:30

Me too.

Intro  01:33

Welcome to less than likely a podcast featuring honest behind the scenes stories of real entrepreneurs. And they're less than likely journeys and creating successful businesses, Kate and Scott chat with founders from all industries and stages in business development to bring you the real, the brave and the messy of building something larger than yourself while being human.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  01:56

Welcome, Deanna.

Scott Robson  01:57

So glad you're here.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  01:59

Thank you so much for having me.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  02:01

It's great to have you and I know your shop well, I was actually in it yesterday. So you're local to me. And it's just such a pleasure to have this chance to chat with you about your business and about everything that you've built over the past several years. What makes you less than likely as an entrepreneur and perhaps I'm very specifically interested in hearing also about what makes you less than likely as an entrepreneur of this particular business that you have. 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  02:29

Yeah, totally. What makes me less than likely, as an entrepreneur, I would say, overall, I worked in corporate, in a corporate environment, and I loved it, I thrived in it. I enjoyed it. There was stuff that I didn't like about it, but I thought it was kind of nice, you know, I was a buyer for Macy's and Bloomingdale's. So I quite enjoyed being in a big company spending the company's money to drive a business. You know, I felt like, in my role there, I was a buyer, so it was like having my own little shop inside a bigger store, you know, so it was nice, you know, so I wasn't somebody that was really itching to get out of corporate. So that's why I'm less than likely on a on an entrepreneur level. But I'm very less than likely opening up a refill shop that is mission based around saving the planet basically, and reducing waste because it was something that five years ago, I could have cared less about to be perfectly honest. Unlike the kids today who are very aware of their impact on the environment, I was not. I was a Gen Xer who grew up in the 90s in Florida. You know, our family didn't recycle, our town didn't recycle. Nobody talked about it, Earth Day wasn't a thing, where I grew up. So when I moved to New York City, like almost when I was 30, that's the first time I ever had to recycle in my entire life. 

Kate and Scott  04:08

Wow. 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  04:09

Yeah, and honestly, I was a terrible recycle. It was just a pain in the butt to me to be perfectly honest. And when I moved to the suburbs, same thing, I moved to New Jersey and moved to Maplewood and I was like, I just want to do the bare minimum, so we don't get a ticket. If our recycling was full, I just put it in the trash. If our trash was full, I'd put it in the recycling. I was terrible. So that certainly makes me less than likely to be opening up a refill shop that literally focuses on reducing waste, reducing single use plastic that lives forever in a landfill. So that is you know the answer to that question.

Scott Robson  04:49

So where did this come from then? So you made this New Year's resolution? And I'm just super curious, how are you inspired to make that as somebody who you're just trying not to get a ticket from the garbage police.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  04:59

Totally. Well, I had stopped working my corporate job, and I was home with the kids a lot. And I wasn't really looking to go back into the workforce at all. But I was certainly aware of how I was spending my day, how I was spending our money, and how we consumed. And it was the end of the year. And I think I was starting to get a little cranky being home with the kids and always having to go to the store all the time. They were only in preschool for two and a half hours a day. So I had to make the most of that two and a half hours. And I would get really cranky if I had to do something like go to Target and get dishwashing detergent, or you know, stuff like that. It really bothered me. And I was just like, oh my god, I get so little time to myself. And here I am. I'm going to the store for this and that. And then I got the AMEX bill in the mail. It was like the year-end AmEx statement where it tells you this is how much money you spend at Target. This is how much money you spent at the grocery store. And I was like, Oh, my gosh. Like I stopped working and our bills just like doubled because I'm home all the time and all we do is go buy stuff, basically. And I just was like, Oh, I hate this. So I told my husband, I'm like, This is insane. Like, look at that chunk of money that's just going straight to Target or Amazon and stuff like that. So I put together a plan for our family. And I said, Okay, I'm going shopping once a month. That's it. If we run out of something tough, we can deal until the next month or we'll have to get creative because I'm not going to the store anymore. I'm going food shopping once a week, and I'm only getting food. And I'm going to Target or Walmart once a month, and I'm buying everything else. And so I love a good Excel spreadsheet, so I basically inventoried our whole house. And I just made a checklist of all the things we buy for our house. And I went every month and through the house and I said okay, what do we need for the next month that was not food related. And I did this for an entire year. And at the end of the year, I saved 10,000. I didn't save...I always have to preface because my husband's like, where's that money if you saved it?...We spent $10,242 less than the year before. 

Scott Robson  07:19

That's amazing. That's unbelievable. 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  07:21

It is. Yeah, I had one rule I said the only rule I have is that I cannot buy anything that's not on the list. So I feel like I was already starting to get into the mindset of less is more stop buying crap. It was the last month of that year. And I was at my monthly Walmart run. And I was also thinking about what is our new year's resolution gonna be? Last year we all had individual ones. But let's do a collective one this year. I looked at my cart. And I really did say everything in here is trash. Everything in my cart that I am buying now is going to be next month's trash, literally. I always tell people I'm like I was buying three different Swiffers I was buying the Swiffer duster. I was buying the Swiffer mop and I was buying the dry Swiffer. Those are single use items that get thrown away as soon as you're done with them. And that's just how I lived how we all lived in this house. And so that's when I thought maybe that should be what we worked on is to reduce our waste and stop throwing stuff away and making things last a little bit longer. And having no idea that there was this whole world of people that were really into zero waste. And I just told the whole family okay, this is going to be our new year's resolution. I wrote it on our little chalkboard in our kitchen. And once New Year's came around, I was like, Okay, let's look and see all the things that we throw away. And the kids were like, oh, you know, and then I found this book called the Zero Waste home by Bea Johnson and was completely inspired. And I really just went after this in a very big way. I found all these reusable items that I had not even known about. And that was part of it. I was like okay, now I'm doing this shopping trip once a month. How do I eliminate that? What how could I take that list and just cut that in half. So what that became was, let's go through the list and find things that we can reuse instead of having to buy them. I found all these products that were out there like reusable Q tips, the unpaper towels, I found those and I thought oh my gosh, there's nothing more I would love than to not have to like take that big 24 pack out from underneath the cart, put it in my car, get it in the house. You know, I just couldn't believe it. But I was still left with all of the cleaning supplies. I love a good all purpose spray, and my shampoo, our conditioner, shower gel...

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  09:52

It's amazing how much it amasses to when you start to account for it. 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  09:59

Yeah 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  09:59

Deanna, you know what I love about your story is that what starts as like the impulse of a mom who's super frustrated with how her time is being spent, which I completely relate to, and I know so many people do, and you're just trying to deal with all of your overwhelming responsibilities, and then it becomes and evolves and changes into this incredibly different way of living. And then an impactful business idea. I mean, it's just one, I think, we can change the world. You and I will do it, we'll do it together, Scott, you can come to.

Scott Robson  10:37

 I'm in.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  10:37

It's, it's just amazing that it just starts with an impulse. And you're like, No, this is BS, like, I'm not doing this anymore. And and here you are. I'm so curious about how it went from a New Year's resolution to...so it could just stop there. And I think for most of the world, it would just stop there. Right? Oh, well, but for you, it became a business. 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  11:05

Yeah. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  11:06

Can you walk us through that? How did that happenr

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  11:09

Sure. I realized that I was at a stopping point, I had started using reusables in our house, and it was working out really well. But I still had all these items that I still had to go to Target for. You know, my all purpose spray and you know, my shampoo and stuff like that. So I read in Bea Johnson's book that there were bulk places that you can just fill up your own containers, because I knew I was like, I will never have to throw away this, you know, liquid laundry detergent bottle, like why would I ever have to throw that away, but yet, I was throwing them away every month. So I thought, okay, she talked about that... she's lives in California, let me find the one that's here. Because I thought, okay, we live in the New York metropolitan area. So there's got to be one. And when I looked it up, there wasn't. I couldn't let it go. It was like one of those ideas that I just became obsessed about. And I was seeing that there were stores like this online. Like I just thought, oh my gosh, it's out there. It's happening. People are doing this, it hasn't even become a thing yet that it's even gotten here. So I would sit there and scheme up, okay, what would I sell? How would I sell it? It really was just a situation where I was like, I can't let this go. And so I started to write a business plan. And I had not ever written a business plan in my life. And nobody ever saw that business plan, by the way, because I didn't even need to like, get in front of anyone. But I was having the time of my life scheming this whole business, and it was still just imaginary. It was just not ever going to happen. I just knew nothing was ever going to happen for it. But I was still working on it. Because I was obsessed with it. I started telling all of my mom friends like at activities like at soccer. I'm like, Oh my gosh, guys, wouldn't this be amazing? And every single person was like, yes, yes, that's what we need. Oh, my God, I would totally shop there. And so that's really how I felt like I was getting momentum. Like if other moms would do this, I think I have something. And then I started looking at real estate leases that were open. And that's when it stopped. I was like, Oh my gosh, the rent is insane. I I'm too scared. This is a business that I don't even know if it could be successful or not. So how am I supposed to really go out there and have this lease that I knew that having expenses super high was going to really stress me out. So I was like, I guess I'm done, then. I'm just gonna stop because this is never going to happen. And then I got a message from somebody who was opening up a space in our town. And the way she wrote it was, I heard you're opening up a refill shop. And I thought that was so funny because I'm like, I basically have told everyone about this idea. So by the time it got to her it was Deanna is opening up a refill shop already, you know, it's just so funny, 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  14:18

Like a game of telephone, right?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  14:20

Yes! And I thought...I am, am I? I don't know. Like it's so she was like, Oh, we're opening up this co-retail space. And we would like to have you consider opening it up in this space. And honestly, I was like, Oh my God, it was like prayers answered, because I'm too chicken to sign a lease on my own on a business that I don't even know if it's going to be successful or if people are going to want to shop that way. I mean, I felt in my gut that it was gonna do well, but I just was too nervous. So I thought this is like, you know, a gift from heaven. I just couldn't believe it. I'm like the one thing that was stopping me. I mean, I even already had the Good Bottle name that came to me literally, when I woke up one day, and I was like, it was just like a dream like Good Bottle. And I was like, Oh my gosh, Good Bottle's the name, that's gonna, what, that's what I'm going to name it. And I thought every time I would hit a roadblock, it was just being pushed away. And I thought, oh my gosh, if this space works out, I can't say no to it. And it did. And so honestly, it really happened because of the space that I was able to find to put Good Bottle in to really test it out and see if it was a viable business. And so that is how it kind of snowballed into an actual space and a location.

Scott Robson  15:45

That's amazing. I mean, I feel like that experience that you had of being a first time entrepreneur, and really understanding the fiscal risk of signing a lease. I mean, that's a huge roadblock to a lot of people who have really huge ideas, and don't move forward on them. And I think that there's a lot more of those people out there than probably have done it. Yeah. Because it's sort of an existential risk, like, Oh, if I lose this, I lose everything. What I was really curious about too, so it's something that you just touched on, which was how there were no other refill shops in the New Jersey, New York area, and New Jersey being the most densely populated state in the US, that blew my mind. So what do you think is the barrier there to more people opening up refill shops in what seems to be like, in my opinion, like one of the best markets in the United States?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  16:35

Yeah, I mean, I guess the barrier would be convenience is king, we're asking a lot of people to get your box, empty bottles, put them in a bag, walk them to your car, get out of your car, come in, weigh your bottle, fill your bottle, weigh it again, put them back in your bag, go to the register and pay... when most people can just will just go to the store and just grab a bottle, put it in their cart. And that's it. That's all they've ever had to do. The other thing is people are buying dish soap from Amazon right now. And it's just like, this is an inconvenient business. So I feel like you know, what we've had to do is really educate the customer on why this is important. We have a store in Montclair as well, we opened that second location last year. And so you know, some people get it right away in in the state, we have a lot of people that come from far away in the state just to refill because they are people like I was that got really into understanding what is happening with our recycling, how it's not getting recycled, how it's getting put on a boat and getting sent halfway across the world. I also think that people are taught that recycling is the answer. And it's not, you know, most plastic can only be recycled once. And only 9% of what we put in our recycling actually gets recycled. So to answer your question, I think that it's an education problem. You know, even progressive people that are just like, very, into saving the planet and living is eco conscious as possible, have absolutely no problem like just taking a here's a bottle water. Okay, thanks. You know, it's like now that bottled water that that plastic bottle will live forever, it will live forever on this earth as a plastic item. So I just think it's so new. It's such a new concept that I don't know if a lot of people are willing to do it. And we're quite honestly, I'm competing with every grocery store and Amazon, so but there are more refill shops now than even when I opened. So the concept is gaining momentum. We just hope that I say we collectively with all the refill shops out there, we hope that people will make a move you. It's a system in your home that you have to kind of like switch to.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  19:10

The thing that comes up for me as I was listening to you talk is also as I'm thinking about, Oh, how do we shop and you know, of course we're refilling a bit through your shop, but it's often an add on. It's like Oh, I'm going to pick up my groceries and I'll just grab this one thing, right? So just hearing your story of the intentionality that you started to bring into your own family's household. There's so much that we consume without even thinking about it. Right? When you begin to think about it, when you begin to account for the laundry detergent and the you know dish soap and all these things and you have to look at it. I mean I realized as I think about my budget that's hidden inside my groceries, that's hidden inside my like general shopping. And when I pull it out, I have to look at it and go, What is the impact of this? Right? What is the impact on the earth? What is the impact on my time? Like you. What is the impact on my wallet? And, you know, one of the things that I think you talk about really, really well is, you know, what are the cost savings and the time savings and, and whatnot that what are the savings that we can have when we refill? Because I do think that there's a bit of a shift that happens, where it doesn't feel as obvious of a cost savings, or a convenience savings when you're refilling. So can you talk a little bit about what you feel the mind switch is there?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  20:42

Totally and you were very kind, the way you said that. Some people have sticker shock when they refill something, and I get that. And that's probably the hardest part of all of this, you know. If everyone did the exercise that I did, they would understand that their savings and using reusable means you don't buy that item again and again and again. Forget the refills for a second, when you switch to unpaper towels, you are absolutely saving money because paper towels added up through for a whole year are our more than what a 24 pack on paper towel roll. You know, you buy those plastic razors, I have a razor that I'll have the rest of my life, I'll never throw it away. But the you know, the price difference is something that people talk a lot about in the store. And unfortunately, I've lost some customers because they're just like, I don't want to pay that much for dish soap, I don't want to pay that much for laundry detergent. And that's been the hardest thing. And that's been the hardest thing to educate people about a circular economy. The way we do it, which was important to me is, most of the brands that we buy from take back the containers, so we have literal zero waste on our end. So I always like to tell people, we are taking responsibility for our waste on our end. And there's a cost to that. And I always like to say if Tide was responsible for every plastic bottle that they sold, if they were responsible for what happened to that plastic bottle? What would the cost of Tide be? How much would that bottle really be? Because if they had to be responsible for it, I venture to say it would be twice as much as it is right now, if not more. So that's what we're trying to educate people on is the circular economy. And there's costs associated to that at this point in the game.

Scott Robson  22:43

Yeah. And I think that that's not something that's spoken about a lot. The fact that these there are a lot of hidden costs, obviously, in the fact that we have these landfills that are filling up, the fact that these companies are creating all of this waste, and it's not on them to actually pay for any of that. You know, so you mentioned that in some cases, it can be maybe a little bit more expensive to do some of these refills, and I think I'm sure in other cases it sort of evens out or there might even be a benefit. How does the refill industry need to mature to make it a little bit more accessible for folks?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  23:14

That's a good question. You know, I guess there has to be, on the supplier side, more than what there is right now. And quite honestly, some of these bigger companies need to open up their ways of doing business, to the smaller shops that are what I like to say doing the Lord's work, because a lot of people come in and they're like, I love Tide so much. I wish you sold Tide. Yeah, I would sell Tide. If Tide were into doing a circular economy, where they are willing to take back the barrels. These companies are on such this giant scale that I think it's worth it for them to to look into doing refill shop business. I know that every refill shop owner is always like I called Mrs. Meyers. They didn't call me back, you know, like,

Scott Robson  24:08

It'd be like such an obvious thing for them to d,o wouldn't it? 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  24:11

I know. We're such small potatoes, we are figuring it out. We're figuring out what pumps work better. We're figuring out what spigots work better for the viscosity of handsoap versus dish soap. We are doing all the work for this. And I feel like they need to step it up in some ways. And in some ways, I'm like, No, I'm happy that I'm doing business with a supplier that thinks that this is just as important as I do. So I don't want the Tides of the world. But how can we get more of these suppliers to put the Tides of the worlds out of business and so that these smaller companies can like grow and thrive? When people say oh, can Did you ever call Mrs. Meyers or did you ever call Bona? And I'm like yeah, they're they couldn't be less interested because they've got such a giant business with what they're doing now.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  25:05

But so just overturn capitalism? That's the answer? (laughter)

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  25:14

How did you accumulate all of the knowledge that you have had to accumulate over the past several years. Like it's incredible, the zero waste, your up to date information about the recycling, all of the fixtures and things that you've had to put together like, what's that been like for you?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  25:31

When I started researching opening this business I, it might sound silly, but I literally just followed every eco friendly website store, Instagram account, you name it, I just dove in and just took it all in to be perfectly honest. And I always like to tell people, I'm not going to be your scientist telling you about the carbon emission versus this and how to calculate that. That's not me, I'll never be that person. What we try to do is focus on reducing our waste. And that's what something that we can do. I always worry about like facts that I'm regurgitating to people. So with the store, I feel like that's a little bit where my background in retail came from, I knew that if I focused on the customer experience and making this an enjoyable experience. That's what I really focused on the most. That's was it. You know, some people that open up the refill shops, I have found that a lot of them are activists, and so they focus more on education. And my background was not that, mine was more... I have a retail background. So I said, I want to focus on making the store Instagrammable you know, I wanted the branding to be amazing, because I want a cool place for them and a fun experience. Other than that fearless mentality, I have to say is what helps this whole thing come about because there was nobody to compare me to at the time. It's not like people were coming into my store and going, Oh, this is different from the other store that you know, there were no other refill shops that these customers could shop in. So I kind of felt a little fearless like, okay, 99% of the people have never been into a refill shop before. So their expectations? You know, they don't I don't think they had very high expectations.

Scott Robson  27:41

You get to set the bar, you get to be the one that everyone is going to be comparing you against them. An incredible opportunity. 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  27:49

Yeah. So I thought, okay, you know, we're just going to learn as we go. And I really, I lean into that big time, even to this day. I'm just like, we're always everything we're doing is figuring it out. Because while there's a lot more refill shops out there, we're all just figuring it out. We're all just saying, Okay, this is new on the market, how are we displaying it? What vessel are we going to put it in? Does it pump, does it spigot, all of those types of things was really everything having to do with that is trial and error.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  28:23

I love the idea of nothing to compare yourself to. That's so so great. I wish every entrepreneur could go out into the world without feeling like the need to compare themselves. And I am curious as a buyer for Bloomingdale's, and Macy's and other places, you must have come across a ton of entrepreneurs who are putting themselves out there and growing their businesses and products and things like that. How did that impact your understanding of like entrepreneurship or how you put your product forward, your retail experience forward? How did you learn from them?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  28:55

Um, yeah, I did. I met a lot of different companies. You know, one of the brands that I used to buy from was Spanx. So it was very cool to learn as much as I could about the trajectory of that brand.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  29:11

Amazing. Did you meet Sarah did she talk to you and 

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  29:14

I wasn't the very first buyer that bought Spanx. I was the second. And so by that time, she was certainly a big deal.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  29:25

She didn't pull you into the bathroom and try them on what she did with her first buyer.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  29:30

That wasn't me. But she was in our meetings. And she was very involved. And this was like 2006 when I was buying Spanx, so like it was still a very new company. So that's part of I guess what was good about having the retail education, because each brand was different. There are brands that were emerging and new and that you really had to work with and I think that's been really fun about what I'm doing now. Because there's a brand that called us up. There's this brand called Athos. And they called us up and they were like, Oh, we've came across your Instagram page and we'd love to show, you know, sell you our products. And I was like, Oh, well we're a refill shop. Because they they sell 16 ounce plastic bottles and stuff. They're very small company. And I was like, let me just tell you what, how we work. And I explained it to them. And they were like, that's amazing, we didn't know about this type of business, we can sell it to you that way. And we can take back the containers. And I have to start like that is the most fun because I'm like, Yes, this is exactly what we want: a small brand, who does business the traditional way, let me show you how we do this. If you can accommodate that, let's do it. And now they've become this huge brand. They have like this really, really famous Tik Tok star that she's sponsoring them now. And so like they're becoming this big brand now, which is exciting. I do feel like I did learn a lot and got a huge education from working in retail, there's no question about it, it's been more inspiring than anything else.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  31:10

I mean, what's so great about your story... from the cooperative that you're in, and then, you know, just hearing everybody kind of say, yes, you're already doing it, or you're already doing and then, there's just an interconnectivity of your model that's really, really beautiful and inspiring to see. I'm curious about some of the harder experiences you've had what's been a real challenge for you, in building this business?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  31:35

I would say, really convincing people that they can do this, and that this is going to be the future of how we consume and reasons why they should do this. And I say that because at the end of the day, the verdicts still out on this business model. You know, we've been successful, we were successful enough to open a second location. So I think that it is a business that it's certainly thriving enough, but it could be doing a lot more. You know, I'm not gonna lie to you in our Maplewood store, we're open Wednesday to Sunday. There's been some Wednesday's, where you're just like, oh my gosh, where is everyone? And I you know, Target's not sitting there going, where are they?.... (laughter)

Scott Robson  32:25

Not a thing that Target worries about, yeah.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  32:29

They have all the moms sitting in there in the parking lot taking a break, because that's what moms do, Scott, by the way. We'll be in there soon. Right? Yeah. So when you're able to convince right oh, you know, what do you see is going to create the sustainability for this, you know, where do you see Good Bottle and this work going?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  32:57

People want to shop this way. And I feel like it's worth investing in. I think that this is the future, I really in my heart and in my gut feel that way. It's just getting it right in the stores that to where people understand that they too can refill. We have such we have a good customer base that are very loyal. And whether they're doing our delivery service, we have a delivery service, too. So as far as them either doing delivery or coming into the stores to refill, we really need to get a much more robust customer base. And that's really been my focus on this year, is instead of like, where's our third location going, it's how do we make these two stores even bigger, and make things in the stores more easier for people to refill? You know, that's always been my focus. Like I said, customer experience, we invested in having a new system so that it's all automated now. And I think making the process better for the customer is going to be the big game changer. And that's really what we've been working on since we've opened.

Scott Robson  34:16

One of the things I was really struck by when you were talking about your clientele, is that a big part of your job is to educate them. Part of your job is also to instill in them why these values might be important. How much do you find for yourself that is what you're doing, the conversations that you're having?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  34:35

I feel like it's pretty much 100% of our social media is trying to explain to the customers, this is why this product is important. This is why this product cost this much. And this is why we're doing it. So you know how do you make this system work in your home and I love being able to show them and then it's all always ends with... you know, every product in our, in our assortment is meant to replace something that you would typically buy over and over and over again. And that's basically all we talk about all day long is like, "And you don't ever have to buy this again." But it is it is a conversation that we have basically all the time. You know, every our social media posts are built around that entire message basically,

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  35:26

That makes so much sense. And I feel like you know, Scott and I would be remiss without giving you the opportunity to educate everybody else about how they can get started, right? So as we're finishing up our conversation here today, it would be so great to hear from you. What do you think everyone needs to know? How can they get started? What is an easy or at their fingertips kind of in to starting this kind of zero waste living?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  35:57

Yeah, I would say using my example of doing a trash audit, be aware of how often you're taking out the trash in the recycling is it every other day, the thought is let's reduce that. And the why do we want to reduce that is because the things that are in our trash are mostly plastic and that plastic, everyone needs to understand that plastic will never go away. Even if it's recycled, it'll be recycled into another plastic item that will then never go away. And it won't we might not get lucky this second time, it might not be the lucky enough to get recycled. So don't pat yourself on the back for recycling.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  36:39

That's such a huge thing. I feel like I knew that a lot of our materials did not get recycled. But I didn't realize that they could only be recycled once. So it's just like it's done. You know, it really is done very, very quickly.

Scott Robson  36:54

Yeah, it changes it completely. I feel like it feels sort of I've been lied to a little bit. Yeah. So you like you sort of feel like, Oh, you're part of the recycling game. You're doing it right. This is all gonna be reused. But that really changes the whole formula in the equation, knowing that you can only do it once.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  37:10

Yeah, absolutely. Bea Johnson has what she calls the five R's. I give her total credit for coming up with this, although we like to add a couple other R's in there but hers is it's Refuse: start there. Start refusing. For me that was I'm refusing all the crap that I was buying at Target. And I pick on Target but I do love Target. You know, I just feel like I should not have spent that much money at Target back in the day when I was going there all the time. But refuse, refuse the things that you don't need to bring into your home. Free gifts, swag bags of stuff that you're just going to put in a drawer or you know, like, just understand like, what you are going to use, what you're not going to use and refuse what you don't need. Reuse. You know, that's what we're all about reusing those bottles, that's the second R. Reuse anything that you can so that it lives beyond that one time use. Reduce isn't then third R: reduce meaning what is it that I don't need in this cart? What is it that I don't need, that I'm buying what is not going to get used? And then Recycling is part of it. You know, if we recycling glass and aluminum is great, easily recycled, it can get recycled over and over and over again. Recycle is not a bad thing. But like when we're recycling plastic, it's a totally different game. And then the last one is Rot. Rot is all of the food waste composting, so composting is important. So those are the five R's I would say that when you look at your consumption under that five R mentality it is a total total game changer.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  38:53

I was looking on your social media earlier this week and I saw that you're like just start with these three. So if you were to start with a few major refill options, what would you do?

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  39:05

Everyone needs dish soap. Everyone needs hand soap and everyone is washing clothes in some way shape or form. And however you can reduce those three items that are getting bought a lot those would make a huge impact. I mean just think of the laundry detergent alone, but those are the three that we always say is the biggest impacts

Scott Robson  39:27

Well we need more people like you Deanna, working within the system to make an impact and a change in the world. So I'm so glad that you are doing this. I think we need we need these refill shops everywhere.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  39:39

I do kind of want to have a chat with 20 year old Deanna in Florida who had never recycled and hear what she thinks about where you landed.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  39:51

I've come a long way.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  39:53

I remember being a kid and my family being like what is this recycling thing you know? So I totally relate to that very different experience. It's just such a different world than what you grew up in. So thank you for following all of your impulses and and getting frustrated and making Good Bottle happen. It's It's really exciting to see it grow.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  40:14

Awesome. Thank you. It has been a joy to do.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  40:18

Well, thanks so much for being on with us today. And yeah, I'll see you at the shop next time. Yeah. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  40:28

Thank you so much.

Deanna Taylor-Heacock  40:31

I appreciate it.

Scott Robson  40:44

DDid you hear that creepy voice when I do that? What is the creepy voice like now recording?

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  40:51

No, I do not hear that.

Scott Robson  40:53

Oh, I wonder why maybe that's an option. Okay.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  40:55

Oh, wow. Because I hear this meeting is now being recorded, whenever I put it on. It doesn't. But people hear that when I do it, 

Scott Robson  41:04

but not when I do it. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  41:06

Oh, can you please tell me your settings?

Scott Robson  41:10

I will, I will let you know, I'll let you know. I thought she was lovely. I thought that was really, really nice. It was a couple of things that I really walked away from with her experience. One, I loved the idea of having a fearless mentality as being such a huge part of part of the experience of being an entrepreneur.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  41:28

Yeah, I really loved that too. And again, you know, I mentioned that nothing to compare, you know, I mean, I think so much of we get into our own heads when we're comparing ourselves to other and that idea that there's nothing to compare yourself to, is huge. I'd love I'd love everyone to take that away, as I said.  But I also think what's so exciting about Deanna and you know, I'm all about like, who are you? And why does that make you the perfect person for this particular business? That's so much about like how I think. And her focus on the customer experience, right? Her focus on what are they going through what's going to make this a really great experience for them versus what we would think of which is that activism that, you know, obviously, she's got a huge amount of education that she does every day, but that it's really such a joyful experience to go in. And her history as a buyer and whatnot. It just really defies what you think, you know, somebody who's going to be building this kind of shop is going to be like.

Scott Robson  42:35

Completely, there's so many things that I wanted to comment on that I didn't there just for the sake of time. First thing is that how often is it that a completely new sub industry like this, or like space like this is created? And I feel like she's so on the cutting edge of it, the fact that they're having to figure out what the fixtures look like, and what the pumps look like? I mean, these are all things when you create a business otherwise, you probably already know.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  43:00

You just do what they did before. Right? What did you do for...right? ...you do that research. 

Scott Robson  43:07

Yeah. So I think that that's such a unique part of her experience that I really just gave her so much credit for, I mean, just having to figure out all of this little itty bitty bitty stuff. I thought that was incredible. And also the fact that she's not just having to educate people, but she's having to appeal to their values of why this is important, because you can educate people, but if they don't care, they don't care. But you're really engaging people on their values of like this is really important. And so there's this enrolling that's happening.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  43:37

Sure. And also the like personal story is so huge, right? The like fed up mom in Target, like I completely relate to that experience. And I think that speaks volumes too. And you know, if you go and take a look at Good Bottle's branding and how they communicate and what they talk about. I mean, it's just all through and through. She's done a brilliant job with that.

Scott Robson  44:02

So yeah, she really has, you know, and she's creating sort of like a new...you hinted at this. And I used to pull that out of my mind too. I was thinking the same thing...This new sense of consumerism. You and I both grew up in the Northeast. You know, you're from New Jersey. I'm from Long Island 

Scott Robson  44:18

I'm from Maryland.

Scott Robson  44:19

 Oh shit. You're from Maryland.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  44:21

I live in New Jersey. This is not where I expected to live, but I'm from Maryland. Yeah.

Scott Robson  44:25

Okay. And so here's this funny.. I was gonna mention this but I didn't. So the town I'm from Long Island is called Islip. Right? Islip is known. It's famous for in 1987 there was the Islip garbage barge. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  44:38

Oh, wow, 

Scott Robson  44:39

Do you remember this? 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  44:41

No 

Scott Robson  44:42

So this sort of like people around the world know of this, although I'm sure there's plenty...

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  44:46

It's probably the first time we all heard the word garbage barge. So yeah, I know exactly what that is.

Scott Robson  44:53

It was this garbage from Islip. And I might be getting this wrong. I'm probably gonna get people messaging us... where they couldn't get rid of this garbage and it went from place to place to place. And everywhere, they're like, we don't want your garbage, we don't want your stinky garbage and get it out of here. And it got national news, my little town. And as a result, we ended up starting one of the first recycling programs in the country. Because presumably, the PR was so bad. But it was also like, guys, well, what's the solution to this, you know, which I think is a really honest conversation, too. So this felt very close to home to me, and I personally am really just so excited about this idea of using refill shops in our lives.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  45:38

It's so so good. Well, that was so fun. She was fantastic. It was really, really great to have that awesome chat.

Scott Robson  45:46

Yeah, thanks for pulling her on to the podcast. That was really really nice.