Episode 3: Erin Loos Cutraro

Founder and CEO of She Should Run

SPEAKERS

Scott Robson, Erin Loos Cutraro, Kate Jaeger-Thomas

Scott Robson  

Bum, ba dah bum bum bah (Kate and Scott speak over each other, laugh) 

Scott Robson  

Kate, we have such an inspiring guest today who is really focused on making a difference. I'm so excited that we have her on. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Me too. Erin Loos Cutraro and I met about two years ago actually right before the pandemic and I was completely struck by her personality, her message, her work. And so when we decided to do this podcast, I was like she has to be one of our first guests.

Scott Robson  

Shoo in, total shoo-in.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

100%. So Erin Loos Cutraro is the founder and CEO of She Should Run a nonpartisan nonprofit promoting leadership and encouraging women from all walks of life to run for public office. Since its founding in 2001, nearly 30,000 women have been encouraged to run for office through She Should Run's efforts. She is a respected voice on gender equality and elected leadership, a sought after public speaker and has served as a featured presenter and facilitator nationwide. She's been featured in like a host of journals and publications and was also profiled in 2019 as one of Entrepreneur Magazine's 100 Powerful Women. She is such a rockstar.

Scott Robson  

She's outstanding. And I'm so so glad we got her. Everybody, here's Erin Loos Cutraro.

Intro  

Welcome to less than likely a podcast featuring honest behind the scenes stories of real entrepreneurs. And they're less than likely journeys and creating successful businesses. Kate and Scott chat with founders from all industries and stages in business development to bring you the real, the brave and the messy of building something larger than yourself while being human.

Scott Robson  

Hey Erin, how are you?

Erin Loos Cutraro  

I'm good. Can you hear me okay? I had to, I had to, I had to change my location. So I'm like hiding in my husband's office because my normal, my normal office, I went to go, like I got my whole podcasting microphone and everything and they're like doing construction. So I'm like, Okay, this is not going to work. I'm going back to my, back to my house, and I'm gonna take over my husband's office.

Scott Robson 

I feel like Kate has had that exact same thing happened, haven't you Kate?

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

I know. Well, so Ben, my husband is a voiceover artists. He has a whole setup. It's funny. You might have this experience as a mom, like, I cannot be undisturbed right now. But I was going to ask you like, it's really hard for me to be in a place outside of my office when I'm doing this kind of thing. Like I feel out of, out of my space.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yeah, I don't know, I've gotten it's like a muscle that I feel like I've had to flex so much that I'm probably not very good at it, but I have set up conversations and closets. And like, I did an interview, like a really important interview in my car.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Where so much peace can be found.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

So much. And actually turns out that's a really great place to try to escape during a pandemic. I'm like, can't go anywhere. I'm gonna go sit in my car.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah, exactly. I think at some point, there was a couple of moms locally, were saying that they regularly escaped to the pharmacy and just sit in space. And I’m sometimes just hanging out in my driveway.

Scott Robson 

Yeah, me too. Best spot. So Erin, I would love to kick things off by asking you our less than likely question that we ask everybody when they come on the show, which is what makes you specifically less than likely to have started she should run and to have gotten involved in the political nonprofit space?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Well, I love a less than likely question because I do think my journey to entrepreneurship and to running a nonprofit is something that if you would have asked me in high school or in college, if it's something that I could have seen myself doing, it was not in my deck of cards.  So I didn't grow up surrounded by many role models, who were, you know, kind of building their own paths in the entrepreneurial world. But on the same note, now, when I reflect back on it, you know, I had folks around me, my mom specifically who was my primary caregiver growing up, who really just figured out her way forward constantly. She was constantly, you know, working multiple jobs, in many ways entrepreneurial. She was like, how am I going to get this job done? Okay, there is a barrier, I'm gonna go around it. And that was instilled at me at a really young age. What I didn't know is I had such great exposure to that. And it was such an amazing life lesson for me that stuck with me, I didn't recognize it as the beginning of entrepreneurship in me. And this reality that I was always the kid who would figure out a way to get something done, would figure out how to make a case for what I wanted, somebody would tell me, I couldn't do it, and I would go around it. And it has such great relation to where I am today, in running an organization, and running an organization in an area that I also didn't grow up in. I didn't grow up in a highly political family. You know, it was something that came to me later. So in so many ways, that's a long answer to a simple question, but it was not something that I knew I would do until I was doing it.

Scott Robson 

Until you're doing it. Because you started off as a teacher, didn't you?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

I did. I was a middle school, well, I was a sixth grade teacher focused in history. And I went from being a teacher to going to grad school for full time for organizational learning and development, which took me into the corporate sector where I was still in education, but I was in learning organizations within the corporate sphere. And you know, the real through line there is I'm just, I'm a curious person. I am always looking for the lever to pull, both in my personal life and professional life that is going to be - I'm impatient - most efficient. So I'm always like, what can we do to get this done faster? What can we do to eliminate some of that noise and in many ways, you know, it makes sense to what my organization should run is doing now.

Scott Robson 

Yeah, absolutely. And I saw that you got your political start working in the Missouri Secretary of State's office with Robin Carnahan.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Robin Carnahan. Yes. So it was amazing first experience in politics. And actually, that was like a hard, I made a hard right turn into politics with Robin Carnahan race. So I have always had a philosophy of, you know, find great people and work with them to accomplish great things and what you're working towards, to me, it's not about one issue, or one cause if it matters a little less, I just don't I have a natural interest in gravity towards working with people who are way smarter than me and doing really interesting things. And I had a professional network where when I was working in the corporate sector, a couple of my close, close contacts knew that I was feeling a little uncertain about my path rising, doing a great job, but also just thinking is this is this what I signed up for in adulthood, and introduced me it really just started with a really basic introduction to at that point, it was Robin Carnahan's campaign manager, who today is one of my, one of my closest friends. She, we met, and she said, Okay, we're gonna figure out a rule for you. And we would love for you to come on full time. And I went, and to the great surprise of my family, quit my very stable corporate sector job and for peanuts went to work in the Secretary of State's race, and it was a completely life changing experience.

Scott Robson 

No kidding. I mean, how did that experience influence how you saw women stepping into political roles?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yeah, I mean, look, I had been interested in and volunteering some in some political efforts just in the couple of years leading up to me, to me joining this campaign full time. But it wasn't it wasn't through a gender lens, it was just a getting involved in a couple of local very, very local races, volunteering on the side of, again, my curiosity of you know, who are these people who are running that want to want to be a voice for the community. And with Robin, it was such a dream come true, because her story is such an incredible one. So she comes from a really political family. Her father was governor of Missouri, he ran for Senate unfortunately, he was killed in a in a plane accident, but still elected, and his wife, Robin's mom's served as a US senator in his in his place. And Robin didn't have an obvious path to politics, but she was around it all the time. So she stepped in, she decided she wanted to run for Secretary of State. The reason why it was amazing, and that was life changing to be in her close circles was, you know, she was surrounded by people who knew politics well, right, because the just the natural friends of family and experts were there to support her. But she was a different type of leader and she cared so deeply. I mean, it was it was it was intoxicating, how deeply she cared about really getting the job done, like almost to a point where some people would roll their eyes and not believe it. Like she really wanted to, you know, provide for voter access, she really wanted to when we would travel the state. And by the way, my job in the campaign was, I was a call time director. I think that my title was Deputy Finance Director. But what that meant was I dialed for dollars. So I was there to pre dial and try to get through gatekeepers for her. And I tell people to this day, it's the most amazing job on a campaign if you want access to everything because it meant I had to be with her, like every waking hour I was with her. So I got to travel the whole state, I got to see, you know, when she would come off of a really, you know, tough conflict, she and I would talk through what just happened and that level of access. And to hear from her just her experience as a woman on the campaign trail, the questions that were being asked, she rarely talked about any of the things being a gender issue, but I would watch in horror by the way, people questioning whether or not she was qualified to run when she was highly qualified, much more qualified than her opponent and just this interesting pressure that was put on her. And then to watch she was primarily surrounded by male advisors and to watch just the the sort of tension between what they what they were advising this you know, very authentic and smart female candidate to think about and do was really eye opening to me.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Ultimately Robin won, which was great and I went on to work in her official office, but I was hooked at that point. I was hooked because like I had my light bulb moment of holy cow, somebody can take something that they care about and do so much good for other people in elected roles. And her experience as a woman was so different and so important. And I just at that moment, I was like, Alright, this is what I want to do I want to do more of this, I want to get more women just like her in the office.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

So can you walk us through that? Because...

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Totally, I know that was really long winded.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

No, it's so great. But there's so much you could have chosen to do at that moment, right? You could have chosen to run for office yourself, you could have chosen to be, you know, run campaigns, you could have chosen many other ways to go, to do the work that you want to do. And And I'm assuming that this moment is where She Should Run came from. So walk us through what happened there for you.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yeah, that's so interesting. It is true that many paths were there, I feel like in reflecting on it, it just felt natural to me to find my people to do the work with. To dig in to, you know, I think I approach things often as somebody who is fully ready to acknowledge, I do not have all the answers. And in the case of, okay, I want to I want to help more women get into office, I didn't know how I wanted to do that. I just knew that it was something that would that really lit me up, that really felt like if I had to put my time to something that was a really great place to put my time. And it wasn't a linear path. By the way, I ended up moving to DC. And I stayed at the the sort of... going between education and politics. So I actually worked for an entity that was working right out of coming from Secretary of State's office in Missouri, I worked for an education organization that was doing hiring reform practices in the public schools to try to make sure that schools were able to hire and retain really great teachers. And it was super political, to be doing that work.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

And the voices in the room again, I just kept building this case, in my head, it mattered who was in the room advocating for change. And so slowly, I started to network myself within DC to get closer and closer to the political circles and break into, you know, people who are working much more directly in politics. And I, I ultimately, after working in education reform, I went to work for an organization that was working with women candidates early on, but I wasn't leading the organization, I was political director. I had, you know, more time to sort of soak in the experiences that women candidates have on the campaign trail. And it was an incredible experience, because I was often one of the first very vulnerable phone calls that would come in from women who are running for office, mostly federal saying, Okay, I'm told that you can help me figure out how to get the support of the big players, the big institutional players, and I would coach them on what they needed to do to essentially prove their viability, which by the way, it was an awesome experience to get to hear what these women were struggling with and start connecting dots. And I very quickly, back to my like impatience, I very quickly went, Oh, God, there has to be another there has to be another way here. Because this is just sad. I'm basically saying you have to be one certain type of candidate and we're not going to have floods of women step in if you have to be kind of one type of candidate in order to get by. And that's really when She Should Run, as an idea started forming. Is it was there has to be another way. We know that when women run for office - by the way, this is still true - when women run for office, they win at the same rate as men. So if we know that, we have to think about ways to get them into office that isn't just about supporting them once they've already made the decision to run. And because we have to change who's thinking about running. And there was no obvious answer. And he was like early stage of internet at that point, there was no like, oh, let's just pop up a web campaign to make that happen. It was it was kind of more grassroots when it started just in concept. But that's really what got me to that point is just being I had to do the work for a while first. Being in the field, working with the women, seeing some of the same challenges in the field that were not being addressed otherwise, to come up with the idea.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah, that's what I get the impression of.  You know, She Should Run is so niche and what does it's really I mean, you have a beautiful visual on your website about the space in which you really are touching these women and building up the awareness that oh, yeah, would be me. One, I want to give you the opportunity to talk about how you do that, right through your programs. So can you talk a little bit about what it is that She Should Rund does that takes them from not me to I can do this.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

This simple way to describe our work is that we are lead finders for the field of individuals who we want to see running for office. First, let me not skip over the obvious. So we are a nonpartisan nonprofit, our main mission is to help women see that they need to and have a voice in political leadership. And we want to dramatically increase the number of women who see that in themselves. We know there is a really well defined and and like will bring me to tears every time I look at the research baseline that says women are less likely than men to see themselves in elected roles. We also know that, depending on the week, somebody will cite World Economic Forum, I think just gave us 139 years till we see gender equity across the board. And that change, by the way went backwards because the pandemic, there's, there's always variables that change, there's sort of different ways to look at that. But but the reality is that if we want to close this gap on representation, and we believe that democracy matters, we have to change who sees themselves in those roles, so that we can accelerate ultimately, our ability to get to gender equity. People would assume we we do at all come to us for endorsement and come to us for you know, traditional campaign training, come to us for you know, whatever it may be related to women running for office. I would love to say we do all of that. But we don't, because we wouldn't be effective if we did. And there's a whole tremendous field of organizations working in different ways to like, piece different pieces of the puzzle, if you will.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

She Should Run's role is how do we effectively target women who are changemakers, women who care about causes, women who are problem solvers, women who, you know, have a unique perspective, who perhaps aren't represented in elected office? And how do we get them to even the starting line of saying, Wait, I could I could run for office, maybe at the local level? Oh, there are roles where my voice isn't represented? That's a good use of my time. How do we even get them there is the work of She Should Run.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

So it comes in two phases, we have one very big goal around targeting women who aren't thinking about it at all, we call it our awareness goal. We do that through brand partnerships through targeted PR campaigns, through earned media through a comprehensive public affairs strategy, frankly, is how do you shift mindsets into a place of possibility and knowing that women can be part of a solution. So that's a big goal. And we have a goal there of adding 5.4 million women to that place of possibility that we drive to. Secondary to that goal and smaller but more targeted is our actual programming. So we do programming, we have a community of virtual community. We used to do some, you know, in person events, but we're pretty much all virtual now. We have a programs that are really meant to meet women where they are at that very start. So it's very much about leadership. It's about helping women get centered in their why, what's their fire in the belly  that would make them see that they could step into a leadership role. By the way, that might not be political leadership. We're okay with that. But we're going to introduce political leadership, and we're going to be we're going to make a case for political leadership. And if they ultimately decide that political leadership isn't for them, that's okay. Because now they know how important it is. And they're going to be more likely to support another woman who you know, who should be running. And there's no harm and a woman being really centered and you know, what is that fire in the belly? So it's our way to, I don't want to say, sneak it in. But it's really leadership focused in a way that we can meet women where they are and trying to figure out how to get better connected with their communities, with issues that they care about, and introducing political leadership as a piece of that.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

And then should we be successful in moving them forward, we then as lead finders push them into the greater ecosystem to get them connected with all the other amazing organizations that do later stage work.

Scott Robson 

That's amazing. So you're essentially creating sort of a leadership training academy for anybody going into the political sphere.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

You got it? Yep.

Scott Robson 

Yeah, incredible. What are some of the challenges that are specific to what you're trying to do in bringing women through that journey of going from what Kate said before of like, there's no way in a million years, I'm going to do this to maybe I can actually do this.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a couple things. So, one, we have the really well researched challenge of the barriers that women are experiencing themselves. Which are, you know, they're there's a culture telling them, they're not as qualified. They are then showing up and saying, Oh, this couldn't possibly be me, I don't know enough very impossible, focused in the imposter syndrome of "politics is for somebody else." It's, I'm not in that role. And you get to I don't see myself there. I don't know how that would be possible. I think I have to have all the answers. And it's probably our biggest barrier that we face. Once a woman gets to the place of saying, Okay, I, you know, somebody's really pushing me, but I just don't think this is for me, tell me more. We just see this issue of imposter syndrome being really big. The real challenge that we face, though, is we are flying this plane as we're building it, because there is not very much research on the woman who's not there yet. There's tons of research on the woman who has run, what are the barriers: money, not having time, the, you know, the toxic nature of politics. Flip back to Okay, a woman is really truly not thought about it.... how do we actually target her effectively? And I'll tell you, we have done a ton of, but we have an amazing data warehouse that we're able to tap into, to be able to know some of this. But we are in the field right now with really comprehensive research on the messages and messengers that are most likely to move women to the table. Because what we have found is that a lot of the women who come to She Should Run are further along than...they're, they're sort of, they're afraid to go to a political training program, but they're like, Okay, with being in She Should Run. And in reality, you know, we just sort of push them along and say, Okay, it's time to go. And try to focus our efforts on these very early mindset, you know, we, we put them on a scale, by the way, they're like one to 10 scale of likelihood to run. We want to focus on the one to fives, we find a lot of six to 10s in our community, and we try to push them out. And there's not a lot of research on those one to fives, we're the really the only ones that are hyper focused on it. And it's not, you know, women are not a monolith, so it's also not easy. Everybody's experience is different. Their reasons for coming to the table or not coming to the table are different. It could be race, and ethnicity. It could be you know, your socio economic status, could be where you live in the country, your political leaning. All of those experiences make it more difficult for us to know exactly how to do it. And the answer that we have to that is just to ask a whole bunch more questions and to do our best based on the insights we get from from research every time we go into the field with like: Okay, our new finding is that too many women in our community, for us on our mindset scale are coming in later. How are we really getting those beginning stage women?

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

It's so interesting, I was reflecting with Scott, you and I met through your TEDx talk, which is you encouraged everyone to reach out to the woman in their life who gets it done, right? Yep. And while nobody texted me that day.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Boo.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Boo, exactly. No, but I had gotten that text 10 years ago, when one of my good friends wrote to me and said, I was in between trying to figure out my path and wrote to me and said, you know, you should run for office. This is somebody who knows me better than anyone. And I was like, it was a hard no.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yeah. Why, but what was that? Yeah, I'm curious.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah. No, and I was like, What? What? And it was such a visceral response. Yeah, I hope, you know, to the it's helpful to share this, but yes, three main reasons. One, I hate politics. First thing I said, second, I'm not knowledgeable. Yep. Right. And that was like, I need to know all the facts. And I don't know all the stuff that I'm not great at history. I'm terrible at geography, like all the things that I made think about my ability to process information. And the third was, that sounds miserable. You're right. And that and so thinking about the first and third question, yeah, we all understand the imposter thing.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yes,

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

of everything that you've already said and also the experience of it, but the first and the third really struck me as like, oh, the exact reasons I don't want to be in there are the exact reasons I shouldn't get it?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yes, yes. Here here. I mean, that is our message, by the way, because if we want to change what's happening in politics, nobody's going to do it for us. You know, I've heard so many people say, like, no one's coming to save us, we have to step in and do it ourselves and open pathways for others who wouldn't wouldn't naturally see themselves there. It is a major problem. Look, we are in at a point in time, our work is so much harder now, even than it was, frankly, from our vantage point, because politics has become more divisivee. Even local politics, which is, by the way, where we focus a lot of our efforts that She Should Run.  Because, you know, there are over 500,000 elected offices, everybody pictures, the highest level when you think about political leadership, and the reality is that most of these offices that need our voices and need our perspectives are in our backyards, frankly, you know, they're right in our communities. And there is this, there's this disconnect right now, because of this, you know, gross environment that's that's popped up around school boards even or, you know, people being harassed for by the way, doing volunteer jobs in elected office. It's a tough case to make, Hey, you want to come sign up and do this work, really is your reaction is the reaction that 99% of the population would give. And so it's not easy to push through that. And by the way, it's not for everybody. And that's okay, too. I think where we are, and where we see our opportunity is, I am just as excited about a woman coming into she should run who ultimately decides not to run as I am the one who does, because there's an experience to go through of realizing that we have to act, we have to do something, we have to participate in order to change who's at the table. And if that who's at the table is not us, we want to make sure that we can influence who it is and that we have a role to and that we know that we're acting on the role that we must play there. And I never want to invite hardship. But I do think that if anything can come from, you know, eyes and attention right now being on, you know, like a global crisis, like Ukraine, is looking at the importance of democracy and and what does it mean to live in a democracy? And perhaps there's something there? It's one of the reasons we're in the field right now in research is because we're we're like, wow, how do you break through with women who are exhausted because they've had to carry an unfair, you know, share of a burden around the fallout from a pandemic? There's a massive economic crunch. There's a distaste for politics. I'm making this all sound really great, aren't I? (laughter)

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Sorry, I was like, I hope it's okay for me to say this sounds terrible.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

No, but But it's but but here's what we can't do. And this is why I love this is my entrepreneurial spirit Spirit coming out. I love looking at that and going well, here's what I'm not going to do: "I'm not going to put out spit out a blanket message that says you should run for office. Just forget about all of that." Because you know what, that is not realistic, right now. What we have to do is we have to get really targeted, and do the bite size version of how does this work? How is it possible? Why is it necessary? Why would I choose to do that with my time versus choosing to do this other thing with my time, and we have to make a really strong case. And I want that really strong case to be rooted in as much research based insight as possible. And too much in politics, what we do, and it's the reason why She Should Run does what it does, is you just repeat, repeat, like there's a formula just put this amount of money in and, you know, support these 10 candidates and repeat, repeat, repeat and and like yes, do well do keep doing that if that's working, but it's not closing the gender gap. So we have to think about how we actually change who's willing to come to the table. And and we don't know all the ways to do that. We're learning it in real time.

Scott Robson 

Yeah, I feel like there's such a pressure for women specifically, obviously, there's so much misogyny, the roles and models that women should be following. I mean, one of the things that I remember happening for me was in 2016, when Trump and Hillary were running...one of our neighbors we had a house, a little house in upstate New York, and we had this wonderful grandparent type figures that live next to us and we adore them still. And one of our neighbors she said, I can't believe it. Hillary's running because she should be home being a grandmother. And it was in that moment that I realized oh my god women are getting it from all sides.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Can't win.

Scott Robson 

can't win, not just obviously men, but obviously within the sort of maternal space as well, which, you know, it's such a huge pressure. So I just feel like you there's so much pressure against women, from all sides, I guess, stepping into the political arena.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

There is 100%. You know, look, I think, some of the most amazing stories, I was just in conversation with someone recently, and it was it was, you know, I'm in Milwaukee, and it was about a local race. And it was a, a woman who ran for state legislature here, who was a stay at home mom, and, and I was talking with her campaign manager, about just that challenge to essentially make a case that that, you know, this very bright woman who chose to be a stay at home mom, or needed to be a stay at home mom for reasons to support her family, you know, was stepping into into a political role. And in those moments, it's like a, how dare you like, what, what do you have to bring to the table? And how do we flip the script on that and say, Look, if we have a truly healthy democracy, it represents all the voices in this country. Do you want your elected officials to all have the same experience? Do you want them all to be the types of individuals who self fund their way and you know, take time off of maybe it's their legal role to do the job? And then they all look the same? And then perspective is all the same? No, of course not. We need to say, okay, it is exactly that stay at home mom, that we need in office because she's going to bring a perspective to the table of other stay at home moms who need to have representation in the room. And beyond that she's going to bring other life experiences. So it's really interesting. We're just set up to reject things that as a society that don't, don't look familiar. And it is, in fact, the very thing that we need to be pushing for.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah, that's what I, the thing that's coming up for me is that, you know, as you're saying, like, the impulse is to replicate what's worked before. Yeah. And I think that that's also the case in business as well, you know, and other businesses as well, what's worked, what's worked, what's worked. But as we all are looking around and saying, the systems that we're swimming in are terrible. You know, what has worked before is completely perpetuating that. We actually need to be looking at different models. But it leaves you in this space. I mean, I so admire your curiosity, and also tenacity around being like, well, this is a big old question that we don't know the answer to. And I spend every day trying to figure it out. So powerful. And I think what I'm being called to, personally, as somebody who does not see themselves in politics, right in that way. I do have a role to play however. Right? And what is that fire in my belly? Yes. How do I, how do I play the role? Yeah, that is meant for me.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

That's right.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

I have a question for you about the trajectory. I mean, you you said I don't know what I was building as I was building it right? Welcome to entrepreneurship. The past 10 years have been particularly unpredictable. So there's two moments that I'm curious about one, I heard you talking about what you were planning prior toTrump's election, surprise election. And what came actually of that, and it was very different, right? There, you had this rush of women who were suddenly interested in running for office. And there's this moment of when you get what you want in your business that I really would love to hear your perspective around, both the good and how did you have to pivot in order to accommodate that?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yep. You know, look, that point in time, so everybody loves a little walk back or not to 2016. And that surprise election. So you know, you reference we were, we were prepared as an organization, to all of our messaging, all of our sort of program planning was preparing for the, you know, the election of the first female president and what that was going to mean, and frankly, what that was going to mean for us, based on all the great experts that we could tap into for it is that our work was probably going to get harder, because people would assume mission accomplished. And you know, okay, you got your president, enough already with talking about more women in office. And so we had business wise, we had just built the first robust virtual platform with courses and meant to be a landing place for that woman who is just at that starting line, we had version one of that ready to launch with really small goals. Because we knew with we thought we could ride a little bit of a Hillary being elected, and then that we would have to pivot pretty quickly. And so a lot of muscle because of the mission accomplished sentiment that we knew would come.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

So everything cued up, surprise election happened, I won't spend too much taking people back to the day. But you know, that day after I had a team looking at me, like, Okay, what do we do boss? And, you know, I was, I was destroyed, like so many and confused and thinking like, Is this the end of our work? Maybe? I don't know, like, head on desk, not sure. And my only answer was, we got to rewrite the emails, Okay, everybody, like who has the energy to pull back together? We're going to have to think this through, let's give it a minute. I don't know what this is gonna mean.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

And I'll tell you, the thing that gave us the strength to figure out putting one foot in front of another is like the ding ding... at that point, I would get an alert, like an actual audio alert every time someone would sign up in the She Should Run community because we, you know, it would be like one one person every other day or something. And it was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding ding... And it wouldn't stop. And I thought what the hell is.. who are these crazy people who are thinking right now and moving straight into a place of action? And is this real? Are we having like a system crash? And sure enough, I mean, it was like weeks, we had 1000s of women over a matter of weeks. And it was just so... I got my energy from them, the team got our energy from them, because we went holy shit, like, we can do this. We can, we have to be there for them, we have to figure out how to essentially accelerate our plan that we thought we were gonna get, like 20 Women in, you know, after and we were looking at 1000s. And the other beautiful thing that happened in that moment is I felt like the world just sort of wrapped its arms around us. Like people just came out of the woodwork to be helpful and say, What do you need? And I mean, it was like, I was running a summer camp and there was mass chaos. And I'm like, you, you you this way that way, that way, that way. It was amazing. We just started plugging people in and building and building and building and you know, resources were coming in. And I truly I mean it, it was like the two years of drinking from a firehose after that. And I wish we could have been more strategic. We were really just doing intake, like trying to keep up. And it was it was about two years before we could sort of breathe and say, Okay, where do we go from here? We have a lot of really interesting information, how do we keep this momentum going. And so it was absolutely game changing for us. And I'm so grateful that we were able to be an outlet. And I'm so grateful that we had a system in place to be able to capture the women coming in. And I feel like the next phase of the work now has been okay, we drank from the fire hose. Now we're drinking from different types of fire hoses, but it's how do we put strategy behind that and, you know, really build a community that reflects, as we always say, we're building for the community that reflects like 2050 of, you know, the women who wouldn't think to sign up for She Should Run? How do we find them? And so our strategy shifted after that point of, okay, great. We have the women coming to us now, how do we find the women who aren't looking for us?

Scott Robson 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would think that that's such a huge amount of data that you're getting when you've got this like avalanche of people coming to you. When there's so much work that just goes into parsing all of that, and just being like, what are we going to do with all these people we now know, we also have all of these opportunities to do better work. So after that huge tidal wave of people after 2016, how have you seen things evolve since the new administration have come in? And we're a year into it, and we're getting close to midterms? And

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yeah, so look, I will tell you, because it's probably related to what my continued greatest challenge in leading this operation is, the work is a lot harder now. You know, where it was coming at us so fast. And we were riding a wave and we were trying to be helpful. Now we're in a position where we're two years into a pandemic, women are exhausted. People are pulling back from politics overall. Most of the signs are, you know, we're at a really critical crisis moment, frankly, in terms of participation and people's exhaustion. And in the funding field, like, look, we're we have to raise money in order to do our work. Guess what philanthropists, like, especially traditional philanthropists who are going to put in transformational money want to see? They don't want to see people take risks they want to bet on the thing that is known, and what we're doing is not known. And it's continuing to find the energy. And look, I have to, I have to get creative about this all the time. But to find the energy to keep making the case that first of all, the whole field of women and girls is massively underfunded. It's a tiny in philanthropy of that tiny drop, even tinier, what goes to advancing women into politics, because people are allergic to politics, even tinier, is trying to make a case that we have to target people who aren't there yet, and support them. And so it's a tough case to make right now. But it's one that we're sure is right, because we see the impact that we're having, we see the gains that we're making. And we're just trying to crack the code on how to how to give it rocket fuel.

Scott Robson 

I think what you just said is so important that women specifically have taken so much of the brunt of the pandemic. Yes, I tell you, I don't think I know a single woman who is a mother who hasn't stepped into the role of the primary caregiver. So you're just dealing with human beings who are just so exhausted at being here and yet granted, things are maybe getting a little bit better. But I mean, who knows, there might be another variant around the corner, we have no idea. So in this world of wanting to enroll women into what you're doing, you're also dealing with just the humanistic element of everybody wanting just to take a beat?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

That's right. Yeah. And look, what I'll say to that is, that's why, on the same way that I explained, the challenge of operating where we operate, the gift of operating where we  operate, is that we're really nimble to respond to that. So what we have done with even within our community, is to pull back from politics, we've pulled back from putting women in a position where they have to be political. And we've said, We know, we're experiencing this exhaustion, too, we're in the same boat. So my community leaders, you know, my Programs Director, my volunteers within our virtual community who are engaging in conversation, they are experiencing it as well. And so let's meet these women where they are and like, hold the space for people to just process this exhaustion right now. And to know that it's okay, if you don't have the capacity to act, right this minute. Don't give up on our democracy, don't give up on staying informed. But it's okay if you have to take a beat. Because all of us do. And some of us will, at different times, we're going to be able to step in. But to stay engaged is really the message right now. And just to give people permission to tap out, when they need to tap out and know they can tap right back in.

Scott Robson 

Yeah, like we've got you. Sort of holding the space. Yeah, yeah.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah, I was shaking my head. Scott, when you were saying it's getting easier? Because I'm like, No, I really feel like while certainly, you know, pandemic numbers, things like that all are going in a good trend at the moment. It is also I'm finding that so many people that I work with women, mothers are exhausted and frayed even more than they were a year or two ago. And yet, you know, the things that are happening in our world as of today, which is obviously not when we're going to be releasing this conversation out into the world. But I don't think it's going to change in the next several weeks. But the things that are happening around the world are deeply impactful and effecting to the women in my community as well. And so there's this space of like, I want to stay engaged. I don't know how to stay engaged in the midst of all of this exhaustion and weariness, and frustration. And you know, that's I'm really empowered just hearing you talk Erin about finding our space in this conversation, our individual space in this conversation. You know, what I'm super excited about is like, what you're doing here is like redefining the political engagement, right? And by pulling away from politics, as you're talking about, I'm just getting excited but pulling away from the political side of things. And saying, how do we keep it in close to what you care about? It gives me a promise of like, oh, how can I stay engaged?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yes. Good. It's working. Yeah, look, it's an IT is an ecosystem. This is where we always talk about you know, and I'm I honestly I'm so I have to find my inspiration from places I just listened to a conversation: Amy McGrath, who has run for office, a federal office multiple times former Marine fighter pilot. I don't want to I don't want to not credit her when I say this, because, you know, she talks about like being a patriot like redefining patriotism, and the being proud to being American in this country. What does that mean? Like that shouldn't be political that and what role is that? You know, voting and caring about who's running for office and caring about who's using their voice in a closed door room to build policy that's going to affect you, and it's going to affect your family. We all play a role in that. And I think the place that we are what we're seeing early stage, look, we're, you know, we're trying to figure out, the best ways to do it is we just have to give women permission to know that even if it feels really small that taking any action matters, like what we don't want to do is put our heads in the sand and say, No, I'm out, I don't vote, I don't pay attention to these things. I don't have the time for it. We have to stay somewhat engaged and saying it is okay and we can celebrate the small things, or the big things. But all of it matters. All of it's sort of, you know, the, the threads of the big, I don't know, the big democracy blanket, if you will.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

I have a question for you about you were just saying how you need to find your inspiration, you know, from lots of different places, and just hearing you talk about how the work is getting harder in the midst of after having an incredible 10 years already. You know, I know you've been pushing uphill in a lot of ways. So, you know, I think we as business owners, we think about, you know, it's always going in one direction, but what just hearing you talk, it's hard, it's hard. It's exhausting. You're a mom, you've gone through all the same things we've all gone through.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yes.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

How do you stay with your work?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

I honestly think it is an optimism, that there's another way. It is a sense of possibility that I am grateful that I don't know exactly how it's fueled in me, but I really do believe there is another way. I believe that it is worth the time and effort and struggle and wrestle to try to find the smartest solutions, in the case of She Should Run, finding the women who should be in those rooms. And that's not to suggest that, that I'm always optimistic about it. But I think ultimately, it's a little bit of that fire in the belly. It's the I think we can do this. I think it's worth our time I looked at I and my answers isn't everyone's answer. But I look at all the levers that we can pull in the world. And I'm like, You know what I'm certain of? Getting more women from all walks of life into positions of power and letting them know that they should be part of the conversation is good for the world. And I am I feel good about that.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

And I am I feel good about you know, trying, I do not get it right all the time, but trying to build a workplace. You know, I have an all woman team, a diverse team, they're all over the country. I'm trying to build a workplace that I would be proud for my daughters to, you know, be in a similar scenario. Like I said, we don't always get it right. But like we're pushing the limits on what it means to not be a scarcity nonprofit that makes people work nonstop, and not know why they're doing what they're doing. And so I don't know, it's all of that. It's just feeling like I'm doing something that has the potential to put good into the world. And I don't I don't know all the answers, but I feel good. I feel good about trying to get there.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

So I want to know, how can Scott and I and all of our listeners write what is the action that we need to be taking?

Erin Loos Cutraro 

I have a few actions first, if you aren't familiar with She Should Run, visit our website. It's sheshouldrun.org. You can sign up to receive our newsletters. If you're somebody yourself who has an interest in you know, dipping a toe in we are a non committal organization, our programs are free of charge, dipping a toe in what it looks like to run for office, we have programs for that, join our community for that. And if you're somebody that just cares to see, the next generation of leaders reflect the rest of the country, I would say support our cause. We cannot do this work without financial support to ensure that our team has what they need to keep delivering. And we can't think small, we have to think really big and not settle for the incremental growth, we want to see major growth. And I think that there's something really important and special about being part of that even if it is, you know, you're an investor in the cause or you're a participant in the cause or you're somebody who promotes the cause, all of those things matter. And then I'll add, we all play a role in changing the way that women see their potential in the world. So if you have a woman in your life, who is a problem solver, who is that consensus builder, that person who can see around the corner and help get you there... Picture her being in a room making a case for you, in policies in your community and tell her that she should she should think about it. She should think about running for office. There is a 99% chance that she's never thought about it before. And you can be the person that plants that seed and we all have the ability to, to close that gap. And I think it's our responsibility to do it. So just thinking about the people who are in your in your world. And the change that you can make by just sending them a text, doesn't have to be big, you don't have to know what they need to run for. But just letting them know that you believe in our democracy, you believe in them, and you want to figure out how to help them see themselves there.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

I just love that we will definitely include a link so anybody who can donate give to She Should Run. And I also just want to say when you send them the text, right, also, you have this great place for them to go where they can consider it without pressure without all of those things. So thinking back around, when that text was sent to me, if my friend had been able to say, oh, check out She Should Run?  I know I would have thought differently about it. Yes. So not only sending the tax, but like and check out this.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yes. Here's a way to demystify it. Yes.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah. It's so easy. Like, I know that we're talking about how hard it is, but it's also so easy.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Yes.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Thank you for your incredible work. And this awesome conversation. It's been amazing to have you.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

I love, I love the conversation. And I really I mean, I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to talk about She Should Run. I'm always hesitant to like my role in that always feels like, you know, I'm a piece of it, but in the ability to kind of introduce it to a new audience, thank you for the opportunity.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

We're so thrilled. Thank you.

Scott Robson 

We're so happy to have you on and thank you for everything that you do. Really. Yeah, we need more of you.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas 

Yeah, we're gonna make that happen.

Erin Loos Cutraro 

Great. I love that. I love that.

MUSIC

Scott Robson  

So that was Erin Loos Cutraro.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

She's just fantastic. I would love to hang out with her all the time.

Scott Robson  

Yeah, she's incredible. Like her fierce intelligence, also just her dedication to what she's doing. I think it's incredibly inspiring. And we need her work in our country. This is something that's near and dear to both of our hearts. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

You know, I think one of the things that was so fun to see was her personality shining through. And she talks about that at the beginning, and this was a big takeaway for me, you know, her personality, her tenacity, her impatience, right?  Just really wanting to solve that problem: I'm seeing this issue, this is BS, how do we get an answer? Right? It was like, Yes, please, more of that. 

Scott Robson  

It was so practical, though, her impatience, I felt. In that she was just like, we need to get this done, we need to get it done more quickly. How do we make that happen? Who do I need to call? Oh, it turns out that it's me, I need to call I need to be the one to create this incredible platform. And I personally, I'm just so inspired by that, that sense of just like, Screw it. I'm just gonna do it myself. And I'm just gonna get the best people. I'm gonna surround myself with them. Yeah, and we're gonna make a difference.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, I would agree. I loved this conversation, because it not only talked about, you know, the less than likely in business but also that there's such the strong through line to the people that she's serving who really consider themselves to be less than likely to run for office. And, you know, one of my favorite moments of our conversation was talking about that moment after Trump's election. 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, me too. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

I mean, I got chills hearing her recount that, it was like it felt like a movie moment.

Scott Robson  

It did, it was very cinematic.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah. What struck me about that was what happens when you get what you want in your work, right? You want 1000s of people to be signing up for what you have to offer, and yet the circumstances were so upsetting and so surprising and difficult. That really moved me.

Scott Robson  

Me too. It's this idea of getting what you want, but not the way that you wanted it. And I think that a lot of businesses go through this as well, you know, they get a great PR spot. And suddenly they're sold out of all of their inventory. And they need to scramble. In her case, it was, oh, it turns out that somebody was elected, that was really inspiring women to say we need to be a counterbalance to this. And so I think that for her that story of how she dealt with the challenge of how do I increase bandwidth on the spot and and improvise that, right? It's both an incredible opportunity, as well as like, holy shit, how am I going to get this done? And getting all the right people in the room to figure it out with you?

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, when your resources, though, are feeling depleted. Because the way she told it, and understandably, I mean, I remember the weeks following that election, there was a there was a level of devastation and her ability to really find the resources. And as she described it, like being a camp counselor, you know, on a day of chaos and like, get this done, do that, do this, do this, you you you and really people rising to the task, it was a really beautiful moment. What was really interesting for me was hearing her talk about the challenges that she's experiencing now. 

Scott Robson  

Yes, yes. You know, I think that during that time, we were was so over engaged with everything, the volume was so high, it wasn't even a 10, it was like a 15. And looking back, I just, it just makes me wonder is like, I wonder if we only have a certain amount of engagement, period. And we if we sort of cash it all in at any one time, we're not going to have it later on. And so she's dealing a little bit with the fallout from that in the sense that people are really feeling a little burnt out. But she wants to get people still engaged with her work and running in local elections and upwards.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

You know, what I really appreciated was that she changes the conversation also about what engagement looks like, right? So it gives us some space and permission to recalibrate our thinking about how we want to meet our responsibility civically, in putting these people in office and promoting representatives of our community and asking them to advocate for us. And I just really love that. She says, You know what, it can look a lot of different ways. But we all need to find a way to engage no matter what that is.

Scott Robson  

Yeah. And I think one of the things I also really liked about what she talked about is the fact that she really niched down in her business as well. And she was like, listen, we're not here for the full ride, like, we're not getting you in the door. But what we're doing is that we're identifying those women who are maybe interested or slightly pre-interested in running for office and giving them the information that they need in order to make a decision, and then she's handing it off. So I think that that focus is something that a lot of businesses that I've seen really struggle with sometimes because they want to do it all. And so I loved that she was like, No, guys, we're gonna really double down and specialize in this, and we're gonna kill it.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, but also, let's recognize and remember that what she was talking about in her niching down is the most unknown quantity of the entire journey. The courage to claim a business in a space that is probably the hardest to fund, the hardest to solve. And the space where it's the most needed. You know, talk about a business problem, and that's what I think she really has taken on and I'm really grateful that she is doing this work.

good. Um, can you all hear... Can you hear me okay? I had to, I had to, I had to change my location. So I'm like hiding in my husband's office because my normal, my normal office, I went to go, like I got my whole podcasting microphone and everything and they're like doing construction. So I'm like, Okay, this is not going to work. I'm going back to my, back to my house, and I'm gonna take over my husband's office. 

Scott Robson  

I feel like Kate has had that exact same thing happened, haven't you Kate? 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

I know. I know. Well, so Ben, my husband is a voiceover artists. Oh, has a whole setup. It's funny. You might have this experience as a mom, like, I cannot be undisturbed right now. Or just a moment ago, my dog was like just poking her head through being like, Hi, how are you? But I was going to ask you like, it's really hard for me to be in a place outside of my office when I'm doing this kind of thing. Like I feel out of out of my space. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yeah, I don't know, I've gotten it's like a muscle that I feel like I've had to flex so much that I'm probably not very good at it, but I have set up conversations and closets. And like, I did an interview, like a really important interview in my car.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Where so much peace can be found. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

So much. And actually turns out that's a really great place to try to escape during a pandemic. I'm like, can't go anywhere. I'm gonna go sit in my car.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, exactly. I think at some point, there was a couple of moms locally, were saying that they regularly escaped to the pharmacy and just sit in space. And I sometimes just hanging out in my driveway. 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, me too. Best spot. So Erin, I would love to kick things off by asking you our less than likely question that we ask everybody when they come on the show, which is what makes you specifically less than likely to have started she should run and to have gotten involved in the political nonprofit space? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Well, I love I love a less than likely question because I do think my journey to entrepreneurship and to running a nonprofit is something that if you would have asked me in high school or in college, if it's something that I could have seen myself doing, it was not in my deck of cards.  So I didn't grow up surrounded by many role models, who were, you know, kind of building their own paths in the entrepreneurial world. But on the same note, now, when I reflect back on it, you know, I had folks around me my mom's specifically who was my primary caregiver growing up, who really just figured out her way forward constantly. She was constantly, you know, working multiple jobs, in many ways entrepreneurial. She was like, how am I going to get this job done? Okay, there is a barrier, I'm gonna go around it. And that was instilled at me at a really young age. What I didn't know is I had such great exposure to that. And it was such an amazing life lesson for me that stuck with me, I didn't recognize it as the beginning of entrepreneurship in me. And this reality that I was always the kid who would figure out a way to get something done, would figure out how to make a case for what I wanted, somebody would tell me, I couldn't do it, and I would go around it. And it has such great relation to where I am today, in running an organization and running an organization in an area that I also didn't grow up in. I didn't grow up in a highly political family. You know, it was something that came to me later. So in so many ways, that's a long answer to a simple question, but it was not something that I knew I would do until I was doing it.

Scott Robson  

Until you're doing it.Because you started off as a teacher, didn't you? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

I did. I was a middle school, well, I was a sixth grade teacher focused in history. And I went from being a teacher to going to grad school for full time for organizational learning and development, which took me into the corporate sector where I was still in education, but I was in learning organizations within the corporate sphere. And you know, the real through line there is I'm just, I'm a curious person. I am always looking for the lever to pull, both in my personal life and professional life that is going to be - I'm impatient - most efficient. So I'm always like, what can we do to get this done faster? What can we do to eliminate some of that noise and in many ways, you know, it makes sense to what my organization should run is doing now. 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, absolutely. And I saw that you got your political start working in the Missouri Secretary of State's office with Robin Carnahan.

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Robin Carnahan. Yes. So it was amazing first experience in politics. And actually, that was like a hard, I made a hard right turn into politics with Robin Carnahan hands race. So I have always had a philosophy of, you know, find great people and work with them to accomplish great things and what you're working towards, to me, it's not about one issue, or one cause if it matters a little less, I just don't I have a natural interest in gravity towards working with people who are way smarter than me and doing really interesting things. And I had a professional network where when I was working in the corporate sector, a couple of my close, close contacts knew that I was feeling a little uncertain about my path rising, doing a great job, but also just thinking is this is this what I signed up for in adulthood, and introduced me it really just started with a really basic introduction to at that point, it was Robin Carnahan's campaign manager, who today is one of my, one of my closest friends. She, we met, and she said, Okay, we're gonna figure out a rule for you. And we would love for you to come on full time. And I went, and to the great surprise of my family, quit my very stable corporate sector job and for peanuts went to work in the Secretary of State's race, and it was a completely life changing experience. 

Scott Robson  

No kidding. I mean, how did that experience influence how you saw women stepping into political roles? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yeah, I mean, look, I had been interested in and volunteering some in some political efforts just in the couple of years leading up to me, to me joining this campaign full time. But it wasn't it wasn't through a gender lens, it was just a getting involved in a couple of local very, very local races, volunteering on the side of, again, my curiosity of you know, who are these people who are running that want to want to be a voice for the community. And with Robin, it was such a dream come true, because her story is such an incredible one. So she comes from a really political family. Her father was governor of Missouri, he ran for Senate unfortunately, he was killed in a in a plane accident, but still elected, and his wife, Robin's mom's served as a US senator in his in his place. And Robin didn't have an obvious path to politics, but she was around it all the time. So she stepped in, she decided she wanted to run for Secretary of State. The reason why it was amazing, and that was life changing to be in her close circles was, you know, she was surrounded by people who knew politics well, right, because the just the natural friends of family and experts were there to support her. But she was a different type of leader and she cared so deeply. I mean, it was it was it was intoxicating, how deeply she cared about really getting the job done, like almost to a point where some people would roll their eyes and not believe it. Like she really wanted to, you know, provide for voter access, she really wanted to when we would travel the state. And by the way, my job in the campaign was, I was a call time director. I think that my title was Deputy Finance Director. But what that meant was I dialed for dollars. So I was there to pre dial and try to get through gatekeepers for her. And I tell people to this day, it's the most amazing job on a campaign if you want access to everything because it meant I had to be with her, like every waking hour I was with her. So I got to travel the whole state, I got to see, you know, when she would come off of a really, you know, tough conflict, she and I would talk through what just happened and that level of access. And to hear from her just her experience as a woman on the campaign trail, the questions that were being asked, she rarely talked about any of the things being a gender issue, but I would watch in horror by the way, people questioning whether or not she was qualified to run when she was highly qualified, much more qualified than her opponent and just this interesting pressure that was put on her. And then to watch she was primarily surrounded by male advisors and to watch just the the sort of tension between what they what they were advising this you know, very authentic and smart female candidate to think about and do was really eye opening to me.  Ultimately Robin won, which was great and I went on to work in her official office, but I was hooked at that point. I was hooked because like I had my light bulb moment of holy cow, somebody can take something that they care about and do so much good for other people in elected roles. And her experience as a woman was so different and so important. And I just at that moment, I was like, Alright, this is what I want to do I want to do more of this, I want to get more women just like her in the office. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

So can you walk us through that? Because...

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Totally, I know that was really long winded. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

No, it's so great. But there's so much you could have chosen to do at that moment, right? You could have chosen to run for office yourself, you could have chosen to be, you know, run campaigns, you could have chosen many other ways to go, to do the work that you want to do. And And I'm assuming that this moment is where She Should Run came from. So walk us through what happened there for you. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yeah, that's so interesting. It is true that many paths were there, I feel like in reflecting on it, it just felt natural to me to find my people to do the work with. To dig in to, you know, I think I approach things often as somebody who is fully ready to acknowledge, I do not have all the answers. And in the case of, okay, I want to I want to help more women get into office, I didn't know how I wanted to do that. I just knew that it was something that would that really lit me up, that really felt like if I had to put my time to something that was a really great place to put my time. And it wasn't a linear path. By the way, I ended up moving to DC. And I stayed at the the sort of... going between education and politics. So I actually worked for an entity that was working right out of coming from Secretary of State's office in Missouri, I worked for an education organization that was doing hiring reform practices in the public schools to try to make sure that schools were able to hire and retain really great teachers. And it was super political, to be doing that work.  And the voices in the room again, I just kept building this case, in my head, it mattered who was in the room advocating for change. And so slowly, I started to network myself within DC to get closer and closer to the political circles and break into, you know, people who are working much more directly in politics. And I, I ultimately, after working in education reform, I went to work for an organization that was working with women candidates early on, but I wasn't leading the organization, I was political director. I had, you know, more time to sort of soak in the experiences that women candidates have on the campaign trail. And it was an incredible experience, because I was often one of the first very vulnerable phone calls that would come in from women who are running for office, mostly federal saying, Okay, I'm told that you can help me figure out how to get the support of the big players, the big institutional players, and I would coach them on what they needed to do to essentially prove their viability, which by the way, it was an awesome experience to get to hear what these women were struggling with and start connecting dots. And I very quickly, back to my like impatience, I very quickly went, Oh, God, there has to be another there has to be another way here. Because this is just sad. I'm basically saying you have to be one certain type of candidate and we're not going to have floods of women step in if you have to be kind of one type of candidate in order to get by. And that's really when She Should Run, as an idea started forming. Is it was there has to be another way. We know that when women run for office - by the way, this is still true - when women run for office, they win at the same rate as men. So if we know that, we have to think about ways to get them into office that isn't just about supporting them once they've already made the decision to run. And because we have to change who's thinking about running. And there was no obvious answer. And he was like early stage of internet at that point, there was no like, oh, let's just pop up a web campaign to make that happen. It was it was kind of more grassroots when it started just in concept. But that's really what got me to that point is just being I had to do the work for a while first. Being in the field, working with the women, seeing some of the same challenges in the field that were not being addressed otherwise, to come up with the idea. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, that's what I get the impression of.  You know, She Should Run is so niche and what does it's really I mean, you have a beautiful visual on your website about the space in which you really are touching these women and building up the awareness that oh, yeah, would be me. One, I want to give you the opportunity to talk about how you do that, right through your programs. So can you talk a little bit about what it is that She Should Rund does that takes them from not me to I can do this. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

This simple way to describe our work is that we are lead finders for the field of individuals who we want to see running for office. First, let me not skip over the obvious. So we are a nonpartisan nonprofit, our main mission is to help women see that they need to and have a voice in political leadership. And we want to dramatically increase the number of women who see that in themselves. We know there is a really well defined and and like will bring me to tears every time I look at the research baseline that says women are less likely than men to see themselves in elected roles. We also know that, depending on the week, somebody will cite World Economic Forum, I think just gave us 139 years till we see gender equity across the board. And that change, by the way went backwards because the pandemic, there's, there's always variables that change, there's sort of different ways to look at that. But but the reality is that if we want to close this gap on representation, and we believe that democracy matters, we have to change who sees themselves in those roles, so that we can accelerate ultimately, our ability to get to gender equity. People would assume we we do at all come to us for endorsement and come to us for you know, traditional campaign training, come to us for you know, whatever it may be related to women running for office. I would love to say we do all of that. But we don't, because we wouldn't be effective if we did. And there's a whole tremendous field of organizations working in different ways to like, piece different pieces of the puzzle, if you will.  She Should Run's role is how do we effectively target women who are changemakers, women who care about causes, women who are problem solvers, women who, you know, have a unique perspective, who perhaps aren't represented in elected office? And how do we get them to even the starting line of saying, Wait, I could I could run for office, maybe at the local level? Oh, there are roles where my voice isn't represented? That's a good use of my time. How do we even get them there is the work of She Should Run.  So it comes in two phases, we have one very big goal around targeting women who aren't thinking about it at all, we call it our awareness goal. We do that through brand partnerships through targeted PR campaigns, through earned media through a comprehensive public affairs strategy, frankly, is how do you shift mindsets into a place of possibility and knowing that women can be part of a solution. So that's a big goal. And we have a goal there of adding 5.4 million women to that place of possibility that we drive to. Secondary to that goal and smaller but more targeted is our actual programming. So we do programming, we have a community of virtual community. We used to do some, you know, in person events, but we're pretty much all virtual now. We have a programs that are really meant to meet women where they are at that very start. So it's very much about leadership. It's about helping women get centered in their why, what's their fire in the belly  that would make them see that they could step into a leadership role. By the way, that might not be political leadership. We're okay with that. But we're going to introduce political leadership, and we're going to be we're going to make a case for political leadership. And if they ultimately decide that political leadership isn't for them, that's okay. Because now they know how important it is. And they're going to be more likely to support another woman who you know, who should be running. And there's no harm and a woman being really centered and you know, what is that fire in the belly? So it's our way to, I don't want to say, sneak it in. But it's really leadership focused in a way that we can meet women where they are and trying to figure out how to get better connected with their communities, with issues that they care about, and introducing political leadership as a piece of that.  And then should we be successful in moving them forward, we then as lead finders push them into the greater ecosystem to get them connected with all the other amazing organizations that do later stage work. 

Scott Robson  

That's amazing. So you're essentially creating sort of a leadership training academy for anybody going into the political sphere. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

You got it? Yep. 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, incredible. What are some of the challenges that are specific to what you're trying to do in bringing women through that journey of going from what Kate said before of like, there's no way in a million years, I'm going to do this to maybe I can actually do this. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a couple things. So, one, we have the really well researched challenge of the barriers that women are experiencing themselves. Which are, you know, they're there's a culture telling them, they're not as qualified. They are then showing up and saying, Oh, this couldn't possibly be me, I don't know enough very impossible, focused in the imposter syndrome of "politics is for somebody else." It's, I'm not in that role. And you get to I don't see myself there. I don't know how that would be possible. I think I have to have all the answers. And it's probably our biggest barrier that we face. Once a woman gets to the place of saying, Okay, I, you know, somebody's really pushing me, but I just don't think this is for me, tell me more. We just see this issue of imposter syndrome being really big. The real challenge that we face, though, is we are flying this plane as we're building it, because there is not very much research on the woman who's not there yet. There's tons of research on the woman who has run, what are the barriers: money, not having time, the, you know, the toxic nature of politics. Flip back to Okay, a woman is really truly not thought about it.... how do we actually target her effectively? And I'll tell you, we have done a ton of, but we have an amazing data warehouse that we're able to tap into, to be able to know some of this. But we are in the field right now with really comprehensive research on the messages and messengers that are most likely to move women to the table. Because what we have found is that a lot of the women who come to She Should Run are further along than...they're, they're sort of, they're afraid to go to a political training program, but they're like, Okay, with being in She Should Run. And in reality, you know, we just sort of push them along and say, Okay, it's time to go. And try to focus our efforts on these very early mindset, you know, we, we put them on a scale, by the way, they're like one to 10 scale of likelihood to run. We want to focus on the one to fives, we find a lot of six to 10s in our community, and we try to push them out. And there's not a lot of research on those one to fives, we're the really the only ones that are hyper focused on it. And it's not, you know, women are not a monolith, so it's also not easy. Everybody's experience is different. Their reasons for coming to the table or not coming to the table are different. It could be race, and ethnicity. It could be you know, your socio economic status, could be where you live in the country, your political leaning. All of those experiences make it more difficult for us to know exactly how to do it. And the answer that we have to that is just to ask a whole bunch more questions and to do our best based on the insights we get from from research every time we go into the field with like: Okay, our new finding is that too many women in our community, for us on our mindset scale are coming in later. How are we really getting those beginning stage women? 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

It's so interesting, I was reflecting with Scott, you and I met through your TEDx talk, which is you encouraged everyone to reach out to the woman in their life who gets it done, right? Yep. And while nobody texted me that day.

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Boo.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Boo, exactly. No, but I had gotten that text 10 years ago, when one of my good friends wrote to me and said, I was in between trying to figure out my path and wrote to me and said, you know, you should run for office. This is somebody who knows me better than anyone. And I was like, it was a hard no. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yeah. Why, but what was that? Yeah, I'm curious. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah. No, and I was like, What? What? And it was such a visceral response. Yeah, I hope, you know, to the it's helpful to share this, but yes, three main reasons. One, I hate politics. First thing I said, second, I'm not knowledgeable. Yep. Right. And that was like, I need to know all the facts. And I don't know all the stuff that I'm not great at history. I'm terrible at geography, like all the things that I made think about my ability to process information. And the third was, that sounds miserable. You're right. And that and so thinking about the first and third question, yeah, we all understand the imposter thing. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yes, 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

of everything that you've already said and also the experience of it, but the first and the third really struck me as like, oh, the exact reasons I don't want to be in there are the exact reasons I shouldn't get it? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yes, yes. Here here. I mean, that is our message, by the way, because if we want to change what's happening in politics, nobody's going to do it for us. You know, I've heard so many people say, like, no one's coming to save us, we have to step in and do it ourselves and open pathways for others who wouldn't wouldn't naturally see themselves there. It is a major problem. Look, we are in at a point in time, our work is so much harder now, even than it was, frankly, from our vantage point, because politics has become more divisivee. Even local politics, which is, by the way, where we focus a lot of our efforts that She Should Run.  Because, you know, there are over 500,000 elected offices, everybody pictures, the highest level when you think about political leadership, and the reality is that most of these offices that need our voices and need our perspectives are in our backyards, frankly, you know, they're right in our communities. And there is this, there's this disconnect right now, because of this, you know, gross environment that's that's popped up around school boards even or, you know, people being harassed for by the way, doing volunteer jobs in elected office. It's a tough case to make, Hey, you want to come sign up and do this work, really is your reaction is the reaction that 99% of the population would give. And so it's not easy to push through that. And by the way, it's not for everybody. And that's okay, too. I think where we are, and where we see our opportunity is, I am just as excited about a woman coming into she should run who ultimately decides not to run as I am the one who does, because there's an experience to go through of realizing that we have to act, we have to do something, we have to participate in order to change who's at the table. And if that who's at the table is not us, we want to make sure that we can influence who it is and that we have a role to and that we know that we're acting on the role that we must play there. And I never want to invite hardship. But I do think that if anything can come from, you know, eyes and attention right now being on, you know, like a global crisis, like Ukraine, is looking at the importance of democracy and and what does it mean to live in a democracy? And perhaps there's something there? It's one of the reasons we're in the field right now in research is because we're we're like, wow, how do you break through with women who are exhausted because they've had to carry an unfair, you know, share of a burden around the fallout from a pandemic? There's a massive economic crunch. There's a distaste for politics. I'm making this all sound really great, aren't I? (laughter)

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Sorry, I was like, I hope it's okay for me to say this sounds terrible. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

No, but But it's but but here's what we can't do. And this is why I love this is my entrepreneurial spirit Spirit coming out. I love looking at that and going well, here's what I'm not going to do: "I'm not going to put out spit out a blanket message that says you should run for office. Just forget about all of that." Because you know what, that is not realistic, right now. What we have to do is we have to get really targeted, and do the bite size version of how does this work? How is it possible? Why is it necessary? Why would I choose to do that with my time versus choosing to do this other thing with my time, and we have to make a really strong case. And I want that really strong case to be rooted in as much research based insight as possible. And too much in politics, what we do, and it's the reason why She Should Run does what it does, is you just repeat, repeat, like there's a formula just put this amount of money in and, you know, support these 10 candidates and repeat, repeat, repeat and and like yes, do well do keep doing that if that's working, but it's not closing the gender gap. So we have to think about how we actually change who's willing to come to the table. And and we don't know all the ways to do that. We're learning it in real time. 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, I feel like there's such a pressure for women specifically, obviously, there's so much misogyny, the roles and models that women should be following. I mean, one of the things that I remember happening for me was in 2016, when Trump and Hillary were running...one of our neighbors we had a house, a little house in upstate New York, and we had this wonderful grandparent type figures that live next to us and we adore them still. And one of our neighbors she said, I can't believe it. Hillary's running because she should be home being a grandmother. And it was in that moment that I realized oh my god women are getting it from all sides.

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Can't win. 

Scott Robson  

can't win, not just obviously men, but obviously within the sort of maternal space as well, which, you know, it's such a huge pressure. So I just feel like you there's so much pressure against women, from all sides, I guess, stepping into the political arena. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

There is 100%. You know, look, I think, some of the most amazing stories, I was just in conversation with someone recently, and it was it was, you know, I'm in Milwaukee, and it was about a local race. And it was a, a woman who ran for state legislature here, who was a stay at home mom, and, and I was talking with her campaign manager, about just that challenge to essentially make a case that that, you know, this very bright woman who chose to be a stay at home mom, or needed to be a stay at home mom for reasons to support her family, you know, was stepping into into a political role. And in those moments, it's like a, how dare you like, what, what do you have to bring to the table? And how do we flip the script on that and say, Look, if we have a truly healthy democracy, it represents all the voices in this country. Do you want your elected officials to all have the same experience? Do you want them all to be the types of individuals who self fund their way and you know, take time off of maybe it's their legal role to do the job? And then they all look the same? And then perspective is all the same? No, of course not. We need to say, okay, it is exactly that stay at home mom, that we need in office because she's going to bring a perspective to the table of other stay at home moms who need to have representation in the room. And beyond that she's going to bring other life experiences. So it's really interesting. We're just set up to reject things that as a society that don't, don't look familiar. And it is, in fact, the very thing that we need to be pushing for. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, that's what I, the thing that's coming up for me is that, you know, as you're saying, like, the impulse is to replicate what's worked before. Yeah. And I think that that's also the case in business as well, you know, and other businesses as well, what's worked, what's worked, what's worked. But as we all are looking around and saying, the systems that we're swimming in are terrible. You know, what has worked before is completely perpetuating that. We actually need to be looking at different models. But it leaves you in this space. I mean, I so admire your curiosity, and also tenacity around being like, well, this is a big old question that we don't know the answer to. And I spend every day trying to figure it out. So powerful. And I think what I'm being called to, personally, as somebody who does not see themselves in politics, right in that way. I do have a role to play however. Right? And what is that fire in my belly? Yes. How do I, how do I play the role? Yeah, that is meant for me. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

That's right. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

I have a question for you about the trajectory. I mean, you you said I don't know what I was building as I was building it right? Welcome to entrepreneurship. The past 10 years have been particularly unpredictable. So there's two moments that I'm curious about one, I heard you talking about what you were planning prior toTrump's election, surprise election. And what came actually of that, and it was very different, right? There, you had this rush of women who were suddenly interested in running for office. And there's this moment of when you get what you want in your business that I really would love to hear your perspective around, both the good and how did you have to pivot in order to accommodate that? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yep. You know, look, that point in time, so everybody loves a little walk back or not to 2016. And that surprise election. So you know, you reference we were, we were prepared as an organization, to all of our messaging, all of our sort of program planning was preparing for the, you know, the election of the first female president and what that was going to mean, and frankly, what that was going to mean for us, based on all the great experts that we could tap into for it is that our work was probably going to get harder, because people would assume mission accomplished. And you know, okay, you got your president, enough already with talking about more women in office. And so we had business wise, we had just built the first robust virtual platform with courses and meant to be a landing place for that woman who is just at that starting line, we had version one of that ready to launch with really small goals. Because we knew with we thought we could ride a little bit of a Hillary being elected, and then that we would have to pivot pretty quickly. And so a lot of muscle because of the mission accomplished sentiment that we knew would come.  So everything cued up, surprise election happened, I won't spend too much taking people back to the day. But you know, that day after I had a team looking at me, like, Okay, what do we do boss? And, you know, I was, I was destroyed, like so many and confused and thinking like, Is this the end of our work? Maybe? I don't know, like, head on desk, not sure. And my only answer was, we got to rewrite the emails, Okay, everybody, like who has the energy to pull back together? We're going to have to think this through, let's give it a minute. I don't know what this is gonna mean.  And I'll tell you, the thing that gave us the strength to figure out putting one foot in front of another is like the ding ding... at that point, I would get an alert, like an actual audio alert every time someone would sign up in the She Should Run community because we, you know, it would be like one one person every other day or something. And it was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding ding... And it wouldn't stop. And I thought what the hell is.. who are these crazy people who are thinking right now and moving straight into a place of action? And is this real? Are we having like a system crash? And sure enough, I mean, it was like weeks, we had 1000s of women over a matter of weeks. And it was just so... I got my energy from them, the team got our energy from them, because we went holy shit, like, we can do this. We can, we have to be there for them, we have to figure out how to essentially accelerate our plan that we thought we were gonna get, like 20 Women in, you know, after and we were looking at 1000s. And the other beautiful thing that happened in that moment is I felt like the world just sort of wrapped its arms around us. Like people just came out of the woodwork to be helpful and say, What do you need? And I mean, it was like, I was running a summer camp and there was mass chaos. And I'm like, you, you you this way that way, that way, that way. It was amazing. We just started plugging people in and building and building and building and you know, resources were coming in. And I truly I mean it, it was like the two years of drinking from a firehose after that. And I wish we could have been more strategic. We were really just doing intake, like trying to keep up. And it was it was about two years before we could sort of breathe and say, Okay, where do we go from here? We have a lot of really interesting information, how do we keep this momentum going. And so it was absolutely game changing for us. And I'm so grateful that we were able to be an outlet. And I'm so grateful that we had a system in place to be able to capture the women coming in. And I feel like the next phase of the work now has been okay, we drank from the fire hose. Now we're drinking from different types of fire hoses, but it's how do we put strategy behind that and, you know, really build a community that reflects, as we always say, we're building for the community that reflects like 2050 of, you know, the women who wouldn't think to sign up for She Should Run? How do we find them? And so our strategy shifted after that point of, okay, great. We have the women coming to us now, how do we find the women who aren't looking for us? 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would think that that's such a huge amount of data that you're getting when you've got this like avalanche of people coming to you. When there's so much work that just goes into parsing all of that, and just being like, what are we going to do with all these people we now know, we also have all of these opportunities to do better work. So after that huge tidal wave of people after 2016, how have you seen things evolve since the new administration have come in? And we're a year into it, and we're getting close to midterms? And 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yeah, so look, I will tell you, because it's probably related to what my continued greatest challenge in leading this operation is, the work is a lot harder now. You know, where it was coming at us so fast. And we were riding a wave and we were trying to be helpful. Now we're in a position where we're two years into a pandemic, women are exhausted. People are pulling back from politics overall. Most of the signs are, you know, we're at a really critical crisis moment, frankly, in terms of participation and people's exhaustion. And in the funding field, like, look, we're we have to raise money in order to do our work. Guess what philanthropists, like, especially traditional philanthropists who are going to put in transformational money want to see? They don't want to see people take risks they want to bet on the thing that is known, and what we're doing is not known. And it's continuing to find the energy. And look, I have to, I have to get creative about this all the time. But to find the energy to keep making the case that first of all, the whole field of women and girls is massively underfunded. It's a tiny in philanthropy of that tiny drop, even tinier, what goes to advancing women into politics, because people are allergic to politics, even tinier, is trying to make a case that we have to target people who aren't there yet, and support them. And so it's a tough case to make right now. But it's one that we're sure is right, because we see the impact that we're having, we see the gains that we're making. And we're just trying to crack the code on how to how to give it rocket fuel. 

Scott Robson  

I think what you just said is so important that women specifically have taken so much of the brunt of the pandemic. Yes, I tell you, I don't think I know a single woman who is a mother who hasn't stepped into the role of the primary caregiver. So you're just dealing with human beings who are just so exhausted at being here and yet granted, things are maybe getting a little bit better. But I mean, who knows, there might be another variant around the corner, we have no idea. So in this world of wanting to enroll women into what you're doing, you're also dealing with just the humanistic element of everybody wanting just to take a beat? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

That's right. Yeah. And look, what I'll say to that is, that's why, on the same way that I explained, the challenge of operating where we operate, the gift of operating where we  operate, is that we're really nimble to respond to that. So what we have done with even within our community, is to pull back from politics, we've pulled back from putting women in a position where they have to be political. And we've said, We know, we're experiencing this exhaustion, too, we're in the same boat. So my community leaders, you know, my Programs Director, my volunteers within our virtual community who are engaging in conversation, they are experiencing it as well. And so let's meet these women where they are and like, hold the space for people to just process this exhaustion right now. And to know that it's okay, if you don't have the capacity to act, right this minute. Don't give up on our democracy, don't give up on staying informed. But it's okay if you have to take a beat. Because all of us do. And some of us will, at different times, we're going to be able to step in. But to stay engaged is really the message right now. And just to give people permission to tap out, when they need to tap out and know they can tap right back in. 

Scott Robson  

Yeah, like we've got you. Sort of holding the space. Yeah, yeah. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, I was shaking my head. Scott, when you were saying it's getting easier? Because I'm like, No, I really feel like while certainly, you know, pandemic numbers, things like that all are going in a good trend at the moment. It is also I'm finding that so many people that I work with women, mothers are exhausted and frayed even more than they were a year or two ago. And yet, you know, the things that are happening in our world as of today, which is obviously not when we're going to be releasing this conversation out into the world. But I don't think it's going to change in the next several weeks. But the things that are happening around the world are deeply impactful and effecting to the women in my community as well. And so there's this space of like, I want to stay engaged. I don't know how to stay engaged in the midst of all of this exhaustion and weariness, and frustration. And you know, that's I'm really empowered just hearing you talk Erin about finding our space in this conversation, our individual space in this conversation. You know, what I'm super excited about is like, what you're doing here is like redefining the political engagement, right? And by pulling away from politics, as you're talking about, I'm just getting excited but pulling away from the political side of things. And saying, how do we keep it in close to what you care about? It gives me a promise of like, oh, how can I stay engaged? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yes. Good. It's working. Yeah, look, it's an IT is an ecosystem. This is where we always talk about you know, and I'm I honestly I'm so I have to find my inspiration from places I just listened to a conversation: Amy McGrath, who has run for office, a federal office multiple times former Marine fighter pilot. I don't want to I don't want to not credit her when I say this, because, you know, she talks about like being a patriot like redefining patriotism, and the being proud to being American in this country. What does that mean? Like that shouldn't be political that and what role is that? You know, voting and caring about who's running for office and caring about who's using their voice in a closed door room to build policy that's going to affect you, and it's going to affect your family. We all play a role in that. And I think the place that we are what we're seeing early stage, look, we're, you know, we're trying to figure out, the best ways to do it is we just have to give women permission to know that even if it feels really small that taking any action matters, like what we don't want to do is put our heads in the sand and say, No, I'm out, I don't vote, I don't pay attention to these things. I don't have the time for it. We have to stay somewhat engaged and saying it is okay and we can celebrate the small things, or the big things. But all of it matters. All of it's sort of, you know, the, the threads of the big, I don't know, the big democracy blanket, if you will. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

I have a question for you about you were just saying how you need to find your inspiration, you know, from lots of different places, and just hearing you talk about how the work is getting harder in the midst of after having an incredible 10 years already. You know, I know you've been pushing uphill in a lot of ways. So, you know, I think we as business owners, we think about, you know, it's always going in one direction, but what just hearing you talk, it's hard, it's hard. It's exhausting. You're a mom, you've gone through all the same things we've all gone through. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yes. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

How do you stay with your work? 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

I honestly think it is an optimism, that there's another way. It is a sense of possibility that I am grateful that I don't know exactly how it's fueled in me, but I really do believe there is another way. I believe that it is worth the time and effort and struggle and wrestle to try to find the smartest solutions, in the case of She Should Run, finding the women who should be in those rooms. And that's not to suggest that, that I'm always optimistic about it. But I think ultimately, it's a little bit of that fire in the belly. It's the I think we can do this. I think it's worth our time I looked at I and my answers isn't everyone's answer. But I look at all the levers that we can pull in the world. And I'm like, You know what I'm certain of? Getting more women from all walks of life into positions of power and letting them know that they should be part of the conversation is good for the world. And I am I feel good about that.  And I am I feel good about you know, trying, I do not get it right all the time, but trying to build a workplace. You know, I have an all woman team, a diverse team, they're all over the country. I'm trying to build a workplace that I would be proud for my daughters to, you know, be in a similar scenario. Like I said, we don't always get it right. But like we're pushing the limits on what it means to not be a scarcity nonprofit that makes people work nonstop, and not know why they're doing what they're doing. And so I don't know, it's all of that. It's just feeling like I'm doing something that has the potential to put good into the world. And I don't I don't know all the answers, but I feel good. I feel good about trying to get there. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

So I want to know, how can Scott and I and all of our listeners write what is the action that we need to be taking?

Erin Loos Cutraro  

I have a few actions first, if you aren't familiar with She Should Run, visit our website. It's sheshouldrun.org. You can sign up to receive our newsletters. If you're somebody yourself who has an interest in you know, dipping a toe in we are a non committal organization, our programs are free of charge, dipping a toe in what it looks like to run for office, we have programs for that, join our community for that. And if you're somebody that just cares to see, the next generation of leaders reflect the rest of the country, I would say support our cause. We cannot do this work without financial support to ensure that our team has what they need to keep delivering. And we can't think small, we have to think really big and not settle for the incremental growth, we want to see major growth. And I think that there's something really important and special about being part of that even if it is, you know, you're an investor in the cause or you're a participant in the cause or you're somebody who promotes the cause, all of those things matter. And then I'll add, we all play a role in changing the way that women see their potential in the world. So if you have a woman in your life, who is a problem solver, who is that consensus builder, that person who can see around the corner and help get you there... Picture her being in a room making a case for you, in policies in your community and tell her that she should she should think about it. She should think about running for office. There is a 99% chance that she's never thought about it before. And you can be the person that plants that seed and we all have the ability to, to close that gap. And I think it's our responsibility to do it. So just thinking about the people who are in your in your world. And the change that you can make by just sending them a text, doesn't have to be big, you don't have to know what they need to run for. But just letting them know that you believe in our democracy, you believe in them, and you want to figure out how to help them see themselves there.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

I just love that we will definitely include a link so anybody who can donate give to She Should Run. And I also just want to say when you send them the text, right, also, you have this great place for them to go where they can consider it without pressure without all of those things. So thinking back around, when that text was sent to me, if my friend had been able to say, oh, check out She Should Run?  I know I would have thought differently about it. Yes. So not only sending the tax, but like and check out this. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yes. Here's a way to demystify it. Yes. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah. It's so easy. Like, I know that we're talking about how hard it is, but it's also so easy. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Yes. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Thank you for your incredible work. And this awesome conversation. It's been amazing to have you.

Erin Loos Cutraro  

I love, I love the conversation. And I really I mean, I'm so appreciative of the opportunity to talk about She Should Run. I'm always hesitant to like my role in that always feels like, you know, I'm a piece of it, but in the ability to kind of introduce it to a new audience, thank you for the opportunity. 

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

We're so thrilled. Thank you.

Scott Robson  

We're so happy to have you on and thank you for everything that you do. Really. Yeah, we need more of you.

Kate Jaeger-Thomas  

Yeah, we're gonna make that happen. 

Erin Loos Cutraro  

Great. I love that. I love that